Powernode 2i-HDMI arc connectivity

Answered

Comments

21 comments

  • Official comment
    Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Hi Dave

    It will... but don't. Connect everything to the TV and then connect the TV to the POWERNODE through ARC. If your TV does not have ARC, use an optical cable. 

    This thread may be more helpful; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360051533574

    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Tony,

    I've been trying to solve a problem which is that my 6 year old Philips TV HDMI arc output will not talk to my Powernode 2i-HDMI input reliably. Having now given up on the TV HDMI arc to Powernode HDMI connection ever working properly, I bought an HDMI embedder box and connected the TV's coax digital o/p to this box and the "normal" HDMI output of the box to the Powernode HDMI input. However, nothing came out of the Powernode! So, the Powernode, it seems,  doesn't want to accept even a normal HDMI audio input.

    Quite exasperating!

    I still want to make use of the Powernode's HDMI input for the TV source, as I have other uses for the Powernode's other two line inputs.

    Any thoughts please? In particular, should the Powernode HDMI input accept a standard HDMI audio source as well as an HDMI ARC source?

    This is the box I tried.....

    LIGAWO Toslink Coax Cinch to HDMI Audio Embedder: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Hi Dave

    I would contact Phillips. I would also suggest you 'Trust the cable with the label' - see this Help Centre article from our good friends down the hall at NAD Electronics.

    https://support.nadelectronics.com/hc/en-us/articles/360022319433-Are-your-HDMI-cables-Premium-Certified-

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Tony,

    I think we had this conversation a couple of weeks ago!

    I tried Philips....their response was I should look at their FAQs....complete waste of time.

    Cables.....as suggested by one of your colleagues Stefan Mehre (I believe), I ordered and tried a Monoprice certified cable, but it still did not work.

    I really wonder why Bluesound bothered adding the HDMI arc input, given it causes so many problems.....a third Toslink input might/would have been more useful !

    Lastly, could you please answer my question as to whether the Powernode HDMI input should accept a standard HDMI audio source, as well as or as an alternative to an HDMI ARC source? I'm still awaiting an answer to this question from your colleague Nishchal !

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Stefan Mehre

    Hi Dave,

    I am no colleague, but I am a user and partner of Bluesound in Germany. I didn't suggest you the cable, I wrote you that I can't believe it is related to the cable. If the cable isn't absolutely cheap garbage and mostly it needs to be old with first HDMI standard, this should work. OK if you wanna use eARC (enhanced ARC) with Dolby Atmos that becomes important but for 2CH PCM and only simple CEC communication between TV and Player the cable shouldn't be a problem.

    Mostly the problem is the implementation of HDMI software (CEC ARC) on TV and/or player side. There could be incompatibility between different manufacturers or even between model series of a certain manufacturer. Sometimes these issues get fixed, sometimes these issues are not only software related they can be related to the HDMI hardwarechip.

    So the big problem here is, the manufacturers esspecially the TV one often are not very helpful. Even when the TV series is pretty new 1-3 years. After that you mostly only get the feeling "throw it away and buy my new one", but your are not safe this one will be OK.

    So I have to say, for othere manufacturers like AV-Receivers, Discplayers, Streamers and of course Bluesound it's pretty hard to help here. The only way would be if they get a hand on the same combination and track down the issue, maybe with debug firmware.

     

    I can understand why HDMI ARC was introduced to many devices, because it seems the best way on first look. With HDMI ARC you get audio in best quality to the player and with CEC you can use the TV remote to control volume, because the TV will control the audiodevice. But like mentioned above in many cases it looks great only on the first look because of incompatibility issues. 

     

    About your question direclty connection of TV receiver to PowerNode 2i, what way you wanna get the video to your TV? The Bluesound devices with HDMI in, are no AV-Receivers with HDMI inputs and outputs to the TV. So if your TV receiver has one HDMI output you want this one with Video to your TV. If your receiver (some discplayers have this) has two HDMI outputs, mostly one is for audio only and many times with an older HDMI standard, this one should work. But I am afraid TV Receivers don't have two HDMI outputs.

    And even if they would have, you can only connect this single device to the PowerNode. With HDMI ARC you get the audiosignal from every source at your TV (even apps directly in the TV) to the PowerNode. So that's the reason why HDMI ARC from TV is normally the way to go.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Stefan,

    Many thanks for your posting.....sorry about my confusion as to your role with Bluesound!

    I understand all you say about the whole HDMI saga and have given up hope of getting an HDMI - HDMI connection to work. However, I still want to make use of the Powernode HDMI port for TV sound as I am already using the Powernode's two line inputs for Turntable and CD Player connections. (This is nothing to do with video!)

    The Philips TV has a coax digital audio output. The question has been how to connect this to the Powernode HDMI input?

    I found a box called "LIGAWO Toslink Coax Cinch to HDMI adapter" available from Amazon here in the UK and bought one. It takes Toslink or Coax digital input and embeds the digital audio to an HDMI stream output. I have tested it with CD Player Toslink input and connected the HDMI output of the box to a standard TV HDMI input. It works fine. However, when I connected the HDMI output of the box to the Powernode HDMI input, there was nothing from the Powernode.

    I have been trying to find out from Bluesound if the Powernode's HDMI input should  accept the audio from a standard HDMI input connection or whether it is designed to ONLY accept an HDMI-ARC audio input, but can't seem to get an answer from Bluesound!

    I assume there are two digital audio paths in the HDMI cable, one for normal audio stream in one direction and one for an ARC audio stream in the other direction. However, I am not expert enough on the technicalities of the HDMI connection to know how this works.....maybe you can enlighten me!

    Dave.

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Stefan Mehre

    You are absolutely right that ARC uses different pins on the HDMI plugs. But I can't believe that Bluesound only connected these and only uses these. I would expect the HDMI is connected completely and all audio with PCM 2CH should work.

    So in your test, did you use the CD player with the PowerNode 2i ? or did you use an other source?

    First we need to be shure that it is 2 CH PCM.

     

    I have no PowerNode 2i HDMI here, I have the older version without HDMI, but I have a soundbar here at the moment. I will check if it will play when I connect a video+audio source direclty to the HDMI ARC In. I would expect it the same for the PowerNode 2i HDMI in.

     

    Edit:

    Did you switch the PowerNode to HDMI ARC source? and did you press play for the HDMI ARC source? with this solution there will be no CEC, so I could imagine that the PowerNode will not switch to HDMI ARC and start playback automatically.

     

    Edit 2:

    did you check this HDMI embedder with an analog audiosignal and PowerNode 2i?

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Stefan Mehre

    So, OK connected a normal HDMI video+audio source to the Soundbar and like you mentioned no audio.

    So two things I could imagine:

    1. Bluesound really only uses the HDMI ARC pins and ARC audio stream from the HDMI cable

    2. the HDMI video+audio sources are waiting for a response about the video support and if that doesn't come back it maybe doesn't send anything.

     

    Point 2. could also be an issue for you, because the Ligawo also implements a Videotestpicture, maybe this one behaves like a normal video+audio HDMI source. Testing with the TV would of course work.

    So, would be great to get a info from Bluesound is the HDMI In of the devices really only HDMI ARC, or should normal sources work and maybe we see missing communication if the embedder asks for video?

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Stefan,

    Re your points.....

    To test the HDMI embedder, I used a Sony Walkman CD player which has a Toslink output. It works fine. This is the same CD Player that I have had directly connected to the Powernode Toslink line input, which also works fine. I will double check the embedder with an analogue audio input later today and also double check switching the Powernode manually to HDMI input via the BluOS app..

    I noticed that the Ligawo HDMI embedder generates a colour bars test pattern on its HDMI output along with the HDMI audio stream. The TV displays the colour bars and the audio from the CD Player when the box output is plugged into a spare HDMI input of the TV. So, the output of the embedder appears to be a perfectly normal HDMI video + audio signal.

    What I still need to know is whether the Powernode is designed to accept a normal HDMI input audio. (Of course, the Powernode would have no use for the video!) If the Powernode was designed to only accept ARC audio, that is rather strange.....why would Bluesound do that???

     

     

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Stefan Mehre

    Hi Dave,

    yes please report back...

    But like mentioned before, there can be two issues. Maybe the PowerNode would accept HDMI only signals, not only ARC. But maybe the issue with the normal signal is, that the other communication parts over HDMI don't happen but are expected (HDCP yes/no/version, video specs, etc.). HDMI systems often switch off the signal completely if any of these communications fail. 

    So maybe the converter needs these answers from the PowerNode but doesn't get them and that's the reason why no audio will get through.

    I am pretty shure best would be a optical/Toslink audio to HDMI ARC converter, but I was not able to find one.

    But you're right,

    @Bluesound, how does the HDMI input on your devices handle the HDMI signal, really only HDMI ARC? is there an issue if there is a videosignal on that input? does the PowerNode report HDMI specs to the connected device?

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    The POWERNODE 2i w/HDMI and SOUNDBAR 2i are strictly just ARC devices and ignore all video signals.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Stefan Mehre

    Strictly just ARC? or strictly HDMI audio (ARC + normal HDMI audiosignal). If I am not wrong and I am remembering correctly ARC uses different pins on the HDMI plug. So I it's strictly ARC only you really only use these signals and normal HDMI audiosignals will not work, right?

    If normal HDMI audio should work, does the HDMI Input tell the source alle neccessary information so it only delivers audio?

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Stefan, I made all the checks, analogue source, etc, that you suggested and no sign of any audio coming from the Powernode. So, my conclusion is that the Powernode does not support standard HDMI audio input.

    I'm left wondering if this is a hardware implementation issue or whether the firmware/software of the Powernode HDMI has not been designed, as yet, to support a standard HDMI audio input.

    I wish Bluesound would provide a definitive answer on this so we can all stop wasting time exploring this issue.

    It's a pity that no-one seems to make a Toslink to HDMI ARC converter box. Like you, I've not been able to find one after searching all the usual places online.

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Dave

    I have escalated your issue. We will be in touch in the coming Days but the issue is not the POWERNODE. We will need to know more information regarding your Audio Chain

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Tony,

    I have already provided copious information about the audio chain which is.....

    Philips TV 33pfl5008t/12 HDMI ARC output -> 6ft Monoprice certified HDMI cable -> Powernode 2i-HDMI HDMI input.

    That's it!!!

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Stefan,

    Do you have knowledge or experience of this product from Sonos? Do you think it would work?

    https://www.sonos.com/en/shop/optical-audio-adapter.html

    I don't want to waste more money!

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Bjorn,

    Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know if anyone has ever tried this with a Powernode 2i HDMI?

    I am asking the Bluesound dealer here in the UK, as they also sell Sonos.

    Will advise once they get back to me.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Hi Dave

    I have spoken directly with our Engineering team - that solution will not work going into the HDMI port of the POWERNODE. The Phillips TV does not support ARC - Stefan Mehre is correct. You will have to connect it using Optical in on the POWERNODE regardless of connectors and ports leaving the TV.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dave Chawner

    Hi Tony,

    Sorry, but the Philips TV does support ARC!

    If I start both the Philips TV and the Powernode from power off, then initially the HDMI ARC connection between the TV and the Powernode establishes and works.

    The problem comes as soon as I turn off the TV to standby and turn it on again, then the HDMI ARC connection will not remake.

    Again, as I have reported before, if I remove the HDMI cable from the Powernode and immediately reconnect it, the audio will work.....that is, until I next power cycle the TV after which the problem occurs again.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Then, as originally suggested, please contact Phillips as there is something wrong with their ARC communication.

    If that does not work, consider programming the remote; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/206572438

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink

Post is closed for comments.