Music Services: add Apple Music?
Answered
Hi,
Just thought, let's drop the question again.
Does Bluesound expect (short term) to add Apple Music as a "Music Service" in the Node 2i?
NOT via Airplay2, but as a Music Service in the Node 2i.
Thanks!
Danny
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If indeed it's now impossible for BluOS to integrate Apple Music as a service that's really too bad, considering the Airplay support in the Node is unstable and has a tendency to drop the connection, as discussed in multiple posts elsewhere on this forum. In practice an intermediate device such as an Apple TV is needed to listen to (lossless) Apple Music on Bluesound endpoints. 😟
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It's always been "impossible", Adrian - it's one of the very few things that BlueSound didn't get right from the start.
Saying that, having tried Apple Music on Sonos and via Apple's Homepod sepakers, it's not for me anyway: it tends to pick versions of albums that it prefers, and it's not really suitable for me as I have lots of non-commercial release expanded soundtracks that it can't assimilate from iTunes (and that aren't in the Apple Music catalogue), so I'm far better served by buying the albums on CD or digitally and storing them on a connected NAS drive and using the (excellent) BluOs interface index and retrieve them.
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Right. I used to be more collection-based in my own music playing but have drifted towards a mix of collection-based plus hopping around by association in subscription services. It seems like Qobuz and Tidal are well-supported by Bluesound but it's not the best option for folks using Apple's service. Not that Apple makes it easy for them, it seems!
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I have been following this post for a long time waiting for an announcement from Bluesound that lossless streaming via an Apple Music client is now finally possible. Unfortunately still nothing.
What I have observed in the recent years, is that the guys from Bluesound try to avoid certain answers:
Why is it possible on Sonos devices? Do we get Apple Music at all? What are the actual limitations?
I think it‘s more a financial issue. Maybe paying a premium to Apple to get a certain exclusivity? All just speculating but we need a final an honest answer from Bluesound after all these years and then we all can move on. Overall I am convinced that this has nothing to do with a technical issue.
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Same. I've been following this post for what feels like years. The best explanation I saw in that time was that Spotify and Sonos have legal contracts with Apple that pre-date Apple Music and Apple had nothing going on in the music streaming space. These contracts give them more access than Apple allows parties newer to the game.
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That might be a part of the answer but I think there is more. I am now even more convinced that it’s all about money, exclusivity, contracts and licenses. Bluesound has to come clean even when it would hurt their business.
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I don't agree Bluesound has to "come clean" - it's their business, and their products have never stated Apple Music native integration, so there's been no deception, just an annoying for users workaround via AirPlay. They're hardly alone in not having Apple Music as an integrated service - Sonos were very early adopters and presumably negotiated a great legacy solution, and I don't see it on many other streaming devices.
It's been time to move on from this for a long time - it's not available, it's not going to be available, use AirPlay, use a different music streaming service or use a different music streamer.
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Moving on is very fine for me but why not closing this chapter for good by just announcing that Apple Music will never happen natively? Would stop all the endless discussions and questions at once. A win win situation for all. Maybe a little less for Bluesound though.
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@Bob Andrews...
What I have observed in the recent years, is that the guys from Bluesound try to avoid certain answers:
Why is it possible on Sonos devices? Do we get Apple Music at all? What are the actual limitations?
How on earth is Bluesound avoiding these answers? They have been given lots of times – I know them and I'm not even following this closely...
Sonos had a special arrangement with Apple at the start of Apple Music to make the service more attractive. As others have said above. Whether Apple will open the necessary APIs to other manufacturers is anyone's guess (personally, I wouldn't hold my breath, but then again they just opened iCloud photos to Microsoft's photos app, so there you are). That is the limitation – it's just not possible for third party developers to access Apple Music that way. The only official way is Airplay.I don't work for Bluesound, and I'm not making excuses for them, I hoped for direct access once too. But it's just not true that these answers have not been given. It's all here in the forums.
Do I care now? No, music-wise, I'm on Tidal. And for everything else (Youtube, Netflix, whathaveyou), Airplay is absolutely bloody fantastic.2 -
Remember Apple Music on Sonos is only 16/48 so Apple HiRes is not supported. This is the same as Airplay 2 so no loss in sound quality by using Airplay 2.
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@Alex H. That topic has been discussed not only here but also in a lot of other forums on the Internet where people don‘t understand why it is not going to happen? So the information might be not that clear. You can tell that by the amount of new questions from new and also long time Bluesound users concerning this topic. It must be tiring for the folks here at Bluesound to answer the same question every couple of months again and again.
Maybe I didn‘t look very carefully in this forum but I never saw a statement like: „No Apple Music Hi-Res Lossless streaming due to Apple‘s licensing policy on other devices.“
Don’t get me wrong, I really love my Bluesound streamers and I will keep on using them. I will now move away from Apple Music and using Qobuz exclusively. Thanks for the open discussion.
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@Bob Andrews and others who would stay the course.....
The problem is the competition has caught up. Every other picture I see in audio forums these days someone is using HiFI Rose streamer and that supports Apple native on the device. I know it's a step up class wise from the (entry level) BS but if that's what I have to do I'll do it.
The problem with just relying on Qobuz for me anyway is that on occasion I can't find a song I would like there, whereas Apple is very widespread.
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Ok, so moving on from the idea of native streaming from Apple Music to the Node 2i, is there a way to get audio from Apple Music to the Node (and then out to my amp) without losing quality vs native with Tidal? I see a comment above regarding needing to use an intermediary device such as an Apple TV - is that a viable option? Or, are we just destined to not being able to get the very best out of Apple Music and needing to settle for an alternative music service?
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@Daragh McGrath
Not sure what you'd gain from having Apple Music from another device sent to your Node 2i and then onto your amp - I have an Apple TV and that's connected directly to my amp, so the Node is there for everything else other than Apple Music. £169 well spent to enable Lossless and Spatial Audio on my amp.
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Richard, I didn’t think that Apple TV supports High Res Losless?
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I didn't actually say High Res Lossless, however, it does support Lossless 48kHz/24bit, which is lossless. The DAC in a Node 2i can't go above 96kHz anyway, so there's always a limitation somewhere! (I bypass the internal BS DAC and use the DAC in my Arcam as it is capable of 192kHz).
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Node 2i can't go above 96kHz anyway
The NODE 2i and all Bluesound Players have a full 24/192 DAC
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My Node 2i doesn't send a 24/192 stream over RCA, maximum is 24/96 - it will only pass through 192 when I use coaxial and use my Arcam's onboard DAC
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Your NODE does send 24/192 audio via RCA - please select Help, Send Support Request and in the brief description filed please mention the details of your setup including other product model numbers so our Support Crew may take a closer look.
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Thanks Tony - I have raised a ticket as suggested. The Arcam app shows the file format being received, and when it's a direct RCA output/input (ie the Arcam is doing no digital work) then it shows 96kHz, but when I switch to coaxial digital connection then it immediately shows it is receiving 192kHz file information. Interesting to find out if there's an issue/a step I missed/etc
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You may have answered my query there Seppi - of course, the files on the NAS drive are digital, the Node's DAC is able to retrieve that information (and differentiate between standard CD quality and the varying levels of Higher Resolution), and then converts digital to analogue and sends the signal on as analogue to the Arcam.
The Arcam is erroneously suggesting it is receiving a certain bitrate (and as it's analogue it cannot know what it's receiving, as you point out).
It's obviously a foible of the Arcam app that it pretends to know what it is being fed when it's an analogue signal.
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So now Tesla will support Apple Music with their next update. Getting harder and harder to keep up the story that it's not possible and that AirPlay 2 is the only way to get Apple Music to a BluOS device. I have it on my Samsung TV, Sonos, HiFi Rose, and now Tesla.
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I vote for a long read technical post from Bluesound explaining the difference between the integrations hms007 lists and Bluesound.
There are plenty of techy savy people in this thread that would love to read that I think ^-^
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It might be that they are working on something but are not allowed to confirm due to NDA. If they are (pure speculation) it might not be a good decision to reveal it and make Apple angry.
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Possible!
But considering Tony’s posts about “something something Apple doesn’t offer this API”, I doubt this so heavily that I’m going to have to lie down to bear the weight of the doubt 😄
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Tesla brings Apple Music in their cars (an embedded app, not using Apple airplay)
when the powernode will also have the same ?
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Also wondering Tony....
Audi has the same... Native Apple Music streaming from E-tron..
So am wondering what is the problem still.. using blue sound :-)
Thanks for support!
/Danny
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Apple is now unlocking spatial audio to sonos this month with the release of the era 300.
Will be nice with Sonos arc too...
My question is if apple are now playing ball like this will we finally get true apple lossless music without airplay on bluesound?
They have also added a handoff feature to the homepod speakers releasing the phone / ipad from sending the music via airplay.
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Nope, not going to happen. Sonos have a legacy agreement with Apple, BlueSound doesn't. Plus Apple is re-launching the HomePod, so there's no real reason for them to want to play ball.
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There are a few things being released in spring that give me hope - a new version of BluOS and also if you have Cambridge audio equipment some new network streamers. So for the naysayers I say there seems to be things happening including the new Sonos equpmiment. Will it all workout that Apple Music classical’s launch coincides with more open availability of native hi-res options, I’m hopeful. I’m sure bluesound are doing everything they can to make their players compatible with the best possible streaming services and quality.
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