MQA issues using Topping D90SE DAC
Answered
This new Topping DAC says it supports full MQA decoding over all inputs incl coax. Have my Node 2i connected via coax and set to support an MQA External DAC. When I play MQA files via Tidal, the Node now shows the song as either "CD" or "HR" (vs "MQA") and the DAC displays PCM.
When I untoggle the MQA External DAC on the Node, the Node displays the song as "MQA" and plays on the DAC as "OFS". So seems like some MQA processing has gone on in the Node and the DAC is handling the rest. I guess I am ok with this but Topping support says the DAC will absolutely handle full MQA decoding over coax. Any idea why it isn't? Am I missing a setting on the Node 2i? Is Topping not being accurate about their inputs?
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Official comment
In the NODE Audio settings, your MQA external DAC should be enabled for MQA passthrough. If it is greyed out, ensure your Tone COntrols are disabled and audio output is FIXED (therefore volume handled by the DAC and not the NODE via BluOS App).
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Yes, this what my Node screen looks like exactly.
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The NODE is merely opening the file and unencrypting it - all audio processing is being handled by the external DAC. Something MQA refers to as MQA B or MQB - check out www.mqa.co.uk for more details but yes the external DAC is doing the heavy lifting in this case then and you are hearing the DAC's playback and not the NODE's.
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Ok, thanks. And is that because a) Bluesound wants it to work that way and forces it or b) that's how Tidal behaves on the Node or c) because the DAC is not actually capable of that first unfold over coax and the Node knows that so it does it. Or d) some other reason?
When I stream Tidal from it's desktop app on a computer over USB to the DAC, the DAC handles it all and shows as either an MQA or MQA studio file (not OFS).
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C) is the most correct answer; The NODE is taking the place of your laptop as the service provider but cannot do a straight pass-through of the MQA file over COAX without at least partially opening the file.
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Ok, great thank you Tony! So when Bluesound releases USB-out capability on the new Node, will that still be the case or will the Node then pass all MQA work to the outboard DAC?
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I honestly do not have an answer for this at this time as it is too early to say just yet.
I will however say as a Premier MQA partner we work very closely with them to ensure USB output will meet all of MQA's desired requirements before being released.
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Tony, when I asked Topping for their response on this, they replied:
The sampling rate and format displayed by D90SE are the sampling rate and format of the input signal, and D90SE will not change the sampling rate and format by itself. So if you want the D90SE to display MQA, you need to transmit the original MQA signal to the D90SE. The D90SE's optical/coaxial interface is supported for MQA decoding, but the Bluesound does not have the ability to output original MQA.Does this contradict or support what you said earlier? I guess in the end it doesn't matter, but I'm trying to connect the dots and satisfy my curiosity about how things actually work and why.0 -
but the Bluesound does not have the ability to output original MQA.
Technically, the Bluesound NODE has this ability but in choosing to use an external DAC via COAX, you are asking Bluesound to bypass that... it doesn't contradict what I am saying but does not explain why your external DAC is not stating it is in fact playing MQA.
All that being said, try the NODE directly via analogue for a few days and let your ears decide.
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I have the Node 2i and and am thinking of buying a Topping D90SE. Having read this thread, I am still not completely sure if I can fully use the Toppings MQA capabilites when using the Node:s output. Please enlighten me.
Thanks!
Niclas
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Niclas, I can only pass on my experience. When I had the 2i and the D90SE, the whole thing behaved as I described above over coax - all MQA tracks were processed first by the 2i and then by the DAC and showed therefore on the DAC as "OFS". When I got the new Node, it changed. Over coax (and USB), the Node does not do any of the first MQA unfolds and the D90SE does it all, with MQA tracks showing on the DAC as "MQA". Does it actually make any difference, who knows?
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Many thanks Ian, highly appreciated! This answers not only my immediate question but also the one I did not ask, if the new Node "behaves" differently. Thanks again!
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Niclas, again just my experience. I never did get to the bottom of it and was tired of going back and forth between the two companies. But I was pleasantly surprised to see it worked as described with the new Node.
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Hi Team,
My Node2i behaves exactly like this as well with my D90SE (and apologies for rectifying this old post).
When I follow the settings described by Tony W, I only get PCM and 44.1 (even on tracks that I know are 192). When I disable "use external DAC", it will show OFS and it will change to 192khz.I also noticed that gapless tracks are no longer gapless, something I tried to remedy with both Audio Clock Trim on and off. Seems when its off I get it less.
Further noticed that the start of songs can be "ever so slightly" trimmed as DAC changes its resolution.All of this I find strange and frankly annoying. Since Node2i supposedly does full MQA pass trough and D90SE is fully capapble of handling MQA.
Please do not tell me:- To just use Node2i Dac (Yes it is great, but the D90SE is on a different level entirely)
- That the D90SE is not capable of handling full MQA.
- Give me the MQA webpage link to go and read up on it.
Please do advise- Which settings I should use?
- Why with external DAC option enabled I only get 44.1 and PCM?
- Is it possible that the Toslink I am using is faulty and should I change to Coaxial?
- Anything else I should consider?
- What I can change to not have gapless disturbed or start of songs "cut".
I am not interested in changing the Node2i, it does what I need. I just wish that all products do what they are meant to do ;)
Happy Monday and thank you.0 -
I went back and forth with both Bluesound and Topping on this (with Node 2i to to the Topping via coax) and never got an answer that satisfied. The 2i never seemed to pass the MQA file when it was set to "External MQA DAC". As you have, I got MQA only with that setting off and then OFS designation on the DAC appeared, but I was confident I was getting full MQA quality. I eventually got the N130 Node and this all went away - it all works as advertised. I am actually using one of the older Topping DACs now (D70s with the AKM chipset) which only decodes MQA over USB but I like it.
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Thanks Ian,
Did you get any click or pops or missing parts of the songs (I am talking just a fraction of a second)? Or small breaks in gapless albums? I would be ok with the OFS, if I can get rid of the pops and gapless (or lack thereof) issue.... Not interested in upgrading to N130.
Seems frustrating and seems someone is not telling the full story here... (sorry Bluesound, kinda looking at you here, based on fact that N130 solves it :p).0 -
Markus, I did not experience any of that in my situation. Maybe try a coax connection? Doesn't have to be expensive, just a decent 75 Ohm coax cable. Not sure why that would be the issue but you never know.
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Cheers, yes I just ordered a Coax. My optical cable is an older one that has been laying around in a box for a while.
But, of course I still like to understand why it wont give me full MQA (but that boys and girls is a story for another time).
With OFS the D90SE already sounds huge, feeding my Rega Brio-R and my Focal Chora 826s. Way more body and depth to everything.
Happy Monday from Downunder :)0 -
Hi Ian,
It's awesome that you are doing all fine with MQA playback now! I recently bought a similar setup as yours. Mine is NODE N130 + D90 MQA (MQA version with AKM chipset). When I play with Tidal over USB output, the sound drops constantly, and the display on D90 MQA switches between PCM and MQA.
It's weird because my NODE actually recognizes D90 MQA in the settings. May you screenshot your settings for reference? Thanks!
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Akira - I now have the same issues describe. Have been back and forth with Bluesound Support multiple times with no resolution. I was able to pinpoint the issue to the Node handling MQA files over USB to the DAC. The DAC works fine when it is fed the same files from the desktop version of Tidal. It seems to be due to the clock trim which I suspect is now automatically turned on when the external USB MQA DAC is selected in the BluOS app. When I use the D90SE over coax and am able to turn the trim off, it works perfectly. My issue is that I want to use the D70s DAC that doesn't decode MQA over coax. So you can get yours to work fine if you use coax and turn off the clock trim. I am so frustrated with this that I have now bought a Lumin streamer/DAC to test.
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Hi Ian,
I totally understand the frustration. (sigh)
My D90 MQA doesn't decode MQA over coax either, haha... It only does it over USB.
Looks like topping DACs are not the only victim, saw another Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M with similar situation.
https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/5691005252887Really hope they could fix this in future update...
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Akira -
Ah right, b/c you have the D90 not the SE. Apologies. So you are out of luck just like me.
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Akira - you should still try running your D90 over coax. All you will be missing is the mysterious "second MQA unfold" which is a filtered upsample as far as I can tell. Your DAC will play it as a PCM file at 1/2 the sample rate that it normally would and it will sound great. It certainly does with the D70s, no way I can tell the difference and I have pretty good system. I highly question both upsampling and high sample rates anyway.
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Ian,
That's what I'm currently doing, play music over coax. I think it's the best way for now that keeps both Tidal and qobuz working.
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