No signal from subwoofer out
Answered
I've been using my M10 for a couple of years now and decided to add a subwoofer. The sub out signal coming from the M10 is so low the sub can't be heard even when turned up to max gain on the subwoofer. I see that this is a problem with other NAD products recently; will there be a fix soon? I added a line level amplifier to add 15 dB to the sub out and I'm getting some action now but i still have to max out the subs volume. This has to be software related.
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Official comment
You'll get more voltage out of the M10's PRE OUTs if you'd like to run those out to your Subwoofer instead.
In the meantime I will pass this forward as feedback to the engineering team.
Regards,
Sam R. -
This has been my issue for months, both with the M10 and now the M33. The manual for the M33 spec states 1.1vrms max for the subwoofer output. The pre outs are listed at 3.75vrms max. This is a huge difference, and it is obviously intentional as it is stated clearly in the device's manual. I wish Lenbrook would explain why it chose the limit the sub's output.
If you use the pre outs for the sub you will lose bass management, and you will be sending full range to your speakers. You will also have to control the crossover by the dial on the sub. Additionally, I don't know how this will affect running Dirac room correction.
Unlike the Node/Powernode 2i, the subwoofer output is NOT active on the M10/M33 when "no subwoofer" is chosen.
Perhaps Sam R. can offer an explanation?
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Hi Bruce
Your issue is better handled by NAD SUpport directly - please contact them at support@nadelectronics.com
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For me the "workaround" is the best solution. My KC62 has standby problems on LFE connection (see also elsewhere in this forum on LFE issues with other subs). Once the KC62 goes into standby (while listening but apparently sensing no input) it hardly comes out of it, even when playing the same song (Angel /MA ON > other song with less low frq STANDBY > back to Angel then it stays in STANDBY) Connection via pre-amp and "no sub" in settings, crossover 80hz on KC62 works flawless, no more standby problems. And about losing "bass mgmt" ... all bass mgmt on M10 is the crossover, which is now handled on sub itself. And all frquencies are send to the loudspeakers (LS50 meta's) anyway (as I understood from other replies from NAD engineers in this forum).
My M10 has other problems, but this one I could handle :-)
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"And all frquencies are send to the loudspeakers (LS50 meta's) anyway (as I understood from other replies from NAD engineers in this forum)"
That is not the case when using the M10/33 subout and adjusting the crossover in the BluOS app. Your mains will receive the frequencies above your chosen crossover point, say 80Hz, and direct the frequencies below 80Hz to your sub. I am not aware of what the db/octave crossover slope that the software uses.
When using the pre outs and controlling the crossover at the sub, the mains receive a full range signal from the pre outs. I also use the pre outs and blend the lower frequencies, volume and crossover at the sub.
BTW, I received a text response from Bob Moran (NAD customer support) about the low level sub out. He said that 1.1vrms output "meets BluOS specs."
I explained that my Powernode Gen 1, Powernode 2i, and Node 2i have no sub output issues, only the M10/33; and that the low sub output is well documented on AV forums, he said he would forward it to engineering.
I have another issue as well. My M33 screen intermittently boots up to ghosting and lines around the edges of the screen, even after following Bob's instructions to upgrade firmware again and send an activity log showing the upgrade was successful. He said they were aware of this problem but have no solution currently.
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Hello Bruce
[I have another issue as well. My M33 screen intermittently boots up to ghosting and lines around the edges of the screen, even after following Bob's instructions to upgrade firmware again and send an activity log showing the upgrade was successful. He said they were aware of this problem but have no solution currently.]
Welcome to the world of the greyish screens. I got this problem with two different M10's right from the start when I bought the first one 1,5 year ago. Annoying, and only to be restored by a power cycle. At least once a week. Firmware issue, never solved. Never put it via a remote control in standby helps a little bit and makes it happen less often.
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I just found this thread after posting my comment (copied below) elsewhere here. tldr: the NAD "fix" for the problem raised in this thread -"no signal from subwoofer out" - is apparently for you to buy version 2 of the M10! Sweet, a $2,700 solution. Heres what I posted before, for those who are interested:
I wish I'd seen this thread before puchasing my M10. I tried to run my KEF KC62 sub off of the subouts from the M10, and there was no sound whatsover even with the gain on the KC62 turned up all the way. The KC62 is self powered with two 500W amps, so surely you'd think that would be enough. But no, nothing.
I filled out a service request with BlueOS support that included a diagnotics file that was generated by the request, and they came back suggesting I check a few obvious settings which I had already done. They then claimed that "your M10 is likely working correctly" and "operating as expected"! Yes, that's right -- no usable signal from the subout to a 500W self powered KC62 subwoofer is "operating as expected." I've copied verbatim below their response below -- am I missing something here? Really quite incredible that they would claim that a non-functioning subout is "operating as expected". Seems like a bunch of legal doublespeak to me.
There's more: They did acknowledge that "some customers desired more base presence". Well, yes, I desired any base presence -- right now I have none. So the helpful workaround they propose below is to purchase a new version 2 of the product that just came out! Super - what do I do with the one I have? Basically, in my opinion, they appear to have shipped a defective product, they fixed the issue in a new version, but now they won't admit the old one didn't work because then they'd have to replace them under warrantee or applicable consumer protection laws.
Here's the BlueOS support response:
"If all of these [settings] have been checked then please know that your M10 is likely working correctly and behaving as expected. These are the only settings that should affect any low output noticed on these amplifiers. After a detailed investigation, our engineers came to the conclusion that the M10 subw voltage is correct and operating as expected.
However, some customers still desired more bass presence.
To help provide a product for these customers, the new NAD M10 V2 is featured with updated gain algorithms.
"Its (M10v2) updated gain algorithms allow higher output levels with inefficient speakers. The subwoofer outputs also have higher gain, allowing for a wider range of subwoofer-main speaker combinations."1 -
NAD's response is incredulous! I feel for you. I returned my M10 AND M33 (same subwoofer issue) within the trial period. With their lack of ownership of the problem (for those of us using subwoofers), makes it difficult to trust NAD with future products. Will they release a M33 v2?
As your issue is NO sub output, not less sub output, could you send it in under warranty?
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Hi Al
Looks like our user community answered your concerns here already; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360051425374/comments/4416898810135
I am closing this Duplicate Thread for comment - please feel free to comment on the other thread.
Bruce - we do hope you reconsider and configure your setup correctly using DIRAC.
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