Lip Sync - Node 2i (digital out)
Answered
Greetings!
Having below setup:
TV Sony XE9005 (Optical out) -> Node 2i (COAX Out) -> Genelec 8330a
There is annoying Lip Sync issue
I can adjust Lip Sync in Node 50ms-150ms, but delay is less than 50ms.
Any thought how to tackle this?
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Unfortunately i also purchased a Node and am now experiencing this issue with audio delay. Since this transforms a relaxing movie into a frustrating evening of drinking until the delay is less noticeable i have to make a choice. Do I choose to live with the inevitable health issues due to the heavy drinking, or do i replace the Node with a more suitable device?
Before i make this choice i would like to ask Bluesound if they perhaps can give us an indication of the timeframe within which we possibly can expect a modification concerning this issue?
If there is no intention ,now or in the near future, to adress this issue for us please inform us also.
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+1 on enhancing node 2i/powernode s.t. delay is < 50ms for optical input. I also am experiencing this problem with delay.
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I have Bluesound system comprising Powernod 2, Node 2i and Pulse flex 2i. They are non-grouped and thus act as solitary speakers. On all these systems I experience a terrible audio latency when connected by Bluetooth to an iMac. For Powernod 2 it is in the range of 350-400 ms. For Node 2i it is in the range of 300-350 ms. It is just the same audio latency if I uses my iPhone 12 as a Bluetooth audio source.
As Bluesound claims there will always be a slight delay with Bluetooth. But what do you mean by "slight"? According to the Bluetooth system there can be an audio latency of 35 ms. Most Bluetooth speaker (ie Bose sound link) have an audio latency of about 50 ms but never more than 100 ms. So, what are Bluesound doing to provide a delay of up to 400 ms? This is not a delay. This is not even an echo. This is two separate occasions. One occasion when you see the lips moving on a TV or a computer. And another occasion when you hear the sound in the Bluesound system.
Such a delay is absolutely unacceptable. What is the purpose with the Bluetooth facility on Bluesound? What version of Bluetooth is used in Bluesound equipments? And finally - what are you going to do about it.
I sent this message 6 days ago in another thread but is has not yet been commented.
The other day I thought perhaps it could be better to use the line input on the Powernod. So I bought a Bluesound transmitter/receiver and connected it to the line input. And much to my surprise the audio latency decrease to about 100 ms. This is not good but much more bearable than the direct Bluetooth connection. So, once again, Bluesound Company, what is your explanation?
JS
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I'm also experiencing an annoying audio sync issue between TV and Node 2i using Bluetooth ;/
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Jan Smede, Bluesound support is the worst support I've seen in my entire life
They're ignoring this problem for years now and will ignore you from now on
You can contact their public relations department on Facebook, they will not ignore you and they will try to help at least somehow
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Thank you for your feedback Evgenii.
Please see my earlier post on this topic; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360046724114/comments/360012469474
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Antknee Williamson we are still waiting for a response to Jan Smede post??!
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Already answered here; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360053115693
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Just to inform you all, as I don't like to be sent around by links. Tonys answer was not an answer but a statement: "We do not support lip-sync grade synchronisation with Bluetooth and have never professed to. We do support lip-sync on the POWERNODE if connected via optical or HDMI".
Since I have not been able to find anything in the Bluesound presentation about any audio latency I find this statement very startling. What else have you never professed to?
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If it works on the powernode (node2i with amplifier), why lip-sync is not working on the node2i on optical? BT i can uderstand, but optical?
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Ioan Cristian in my case all is working fine on optical input, look at the screenshot (node 2i):
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Krzysiek Kowalski You will still get 60ms delay over optical.
Jan Smede Right now, only one way to reduce 400ms delay over Bluetooth is to use external Bluetooth DAC/adapter. I'm using SMSL m200 with analog output and it's perfectly 'OK' for video content.
Antknee Williamson People are waiting for update/progress on optical delay issue, not just a link to some old post.
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I agree with others, why should this work over powernode but node 2i. Bluetooth I also understand but not optical.
Please give an update on update/progress on the optical delay issue, not another link acting like issue has been resolved when it has not.
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Tony, no one wants for their request to be marked as answered and forgotten right away.
And you are doing exactly this. You didn't pass any feedback from developers for more than half of a year which means you didn't even pass our issue to the development team.
And you act arrogant and snobbish what is unacceptable for a support team. I'm a product manager myself and I would fire any of my support team members once I'd seen this behavior.
OK, we can understand that you are tired being a support, tired of all of us with our stupid "wanna this wanna that oh my device is not working", but we didn't deserve to be treated like that.
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Hi folks (Tony included),
I just bought a new external Bluetooth receiver with optical and analog outputs. This is a quality BT receiver with 5.0 firmware. Connecting this BT to the analoge input on my Powernode (not i-model) I experience a very low audio latency, less than 20 ms. This was the same with the optical input. But connecting my computer directly to the Powernod by its own internal BT receiver the latency is about 150 ms or more. However the latency is not stable. It varies widely between 60 to 200 ms and more. So if you want to get rid of the audio latency buying a quality BT receiver is the solution.
According to the specification of the Powernod it has the BT version 5.0 and also the codex aptX. So how come, Mister Bluesound, that the internal BT of the Powernod has an extreme latency but an externat BT receiver has none?
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Hi there!
As a new, but perhaps late owner of the Powernode 2i I would also like to contribute to this thread.
Just this week I replaced my previous network receiver Marantz NR1200 with the more upmarket Powernode 2i. For the record - there was ZERO problems even with the lower priced device with lip sync from any source out of the TV whatsoever. So any claims by the support with recommendations to check cables, networks or TVs for the sound sync issue are simply wrong. It worked perfect as it was designed to.
Obviously Powernode 2i is not designed to perform this task ideally as the default 50ms lip-sync delay is embedded out of the box, which I see it just as a huge oversight by the developers team.
With this delay I would prefer to select TV sound instead of the excellent stereo from Powernode and wait until this is resolved with the next firmware update. It was an unpleasant surprise for me to learn that the product with "HDMI" in it's name cannot perform HDMI right in the first place.
Current set-up:
LG TV OLED55C9PLA -> Bluesound Powernode 2i -> Q Acoustics 3050i4 -
+1
I just want to add my frustration as a powernode 2i user. I have followed along with this thread since last year and want to add my issues with others.The delay renders home cinema painfully frustrating. Delay is enough to make me 2nd guess every scene and loose the enjoyment. My TV and speakers are waisted on this.
I am pretty shocked by Tony W's way of treating customers. Is he really trying to turn his nose up/arrogance at so many people and lose a lot of respect for the brand. Needs to take a long think about that.
This is definitely being marketed as a home cinema and audio device so it's disingenuous to act like this isn't relevant.
I can't see how prioritising sorround sound capability when the device is either "not intended for TV" or there's a critical issue with delay. Either option doesn't make sense.
I'd appreciate a genuine update about whether there has been any effort to investigate and determine a solution and time frame to implement.
Setup:
PN 2i (no hdmi)
Bowers 606
Audioquest optical cable Pearl3 -
I wish I had found this sooner as well. I really enjoy the bluesound equipment. We have a powernode 2, 2 x flex, soundbar and a Powernode 2i. I’m really disappointed with the lip syncing it’s been bugging me for months, in some ways I’m glad to find I’m not the only one, in others I’m shocked Bluesound haven’t done something about it. Come on guys you advertise this as something the powernode is able to cope with. It’s one of the reasons I bought it! Come up with a solution.
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Almost a year passed after Tony W. marked this thread as "Answered" and forgot it.
About 4 years passed after first occurrence of this problem according to this forum.
I'm getting used to be neglected by arrogant support.
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Bluetooth latency is largely not a Bluesound issue and probably should be discussed separately.
For optical input, why defaulting all BluOS device to grouped status? Given that there may be multiple components in the chain to produce a sound, any latency reduction would help.
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Hi there Ken,
Are you a company man or just a consumer? Have you red what has been diskussed in the thread? Then you would know that the latency is a Bluesound issue and not a Bluetooth issue. When Node is connected by an ordinary Bluetooth receiver (V5) to the optical input or the audio input the latency is within 20 ms. When connecting Node via its own Bluetooth facility the latency is 150 ms or more.
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- The OP was rasing issues about Optical input. It's better not to lump different issues together.
- A simple internet search will return endless complaints about Bluetooth latency in all kinds of situations, not just about Bluesound.
Did you see that I complained about the latency on the optical input and suggested discussing Bluetooth separately? Why making groundless accusation about "company man" instead of discussing real issues?
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Ken, apologize for assuming you as a "company man". But I got the feeling that you ment that Bluetooth is perfect and everyone else is to blame. So, what is your contribution the the thread?
Still when using Bluesound as a Bluetooth speaker you get a severe latency which you do not get with an ordinary Bluetooth speaker. Using a Bluetooth receiver connected to the optical och analog input on the Bluesound the latency is much lower. So, the question is what is wrong with the built-in Bluetooth facility in Bluesound.
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Hello
I'm just here to say thanks to all fore your feedbacks and research and Tonys ''impressive'' respons to all, that i'm definitely NOT gonna buy the Bluesound Node, mostly thanks (99.9%) to Tony.
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Thanks to everyone for raising this lip-sync issue. I currently have a NAD 3020 v2 and was looking for a compact roon ready amplifier. Sorry bluesound, but I will skip this time.
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Hello, everyone!
Tony, your arrogance is already came at the price of at least 2 customers.
Maybe you will descend from your heavenly position and spill some light of hope to your unworthy customers regarding the issue? More than a year passed by now, don't tell us you still did nothing
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And for god's sake unmark this thread as answered as long as it is not.
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Hello everyone, I have almost a month with the goal in mind of acquiring the powernode 2021 this Saturday, July 3, 2021 I have planned to go to pay the porwenode with a distributor, I live in Mexico, but I was just disappointed to know that there is a delay On the lips with the HDMI function, I am a couple of days away from being able to change my purchase decision for this problem that as read in the post does not seem to want to give a solution
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I've just bought a Soundbar 2i and unfortunately have to report exactly the same problem. The 50ms delay makes watching anything on a screen impossible. The "AV Mode" gives the user the ability to introduce more delay, which is of no use.
The problem, as we all now know, is the audio needs to be delayed less than 50ms or in fact not at all (or even the picture delayed with audio at 0ms!).
I am an audio engineer in musicals and we use radio mics on the performers. I've spent many years fine-tuning delay in professional audio systems at the highest level globally (West End and Broadway). In the musicals we need to delay the audio back to the stage using highly accurate delay methodology. This is because the speakers are much closer to the audience than the performers.
Bluesound devices have an inherent 50 ms delay. When you are sitting in your living room about 6 feet away from your screen the image is arriving before the sound, so the last thing you need is to add more delay in the audio chain. Over a small distance the brain will coalesce the image and the sound. In truth, the sound could be behind the image by up to about 30ms, and all would be well, but 50ms is just outside what the brain and nervous system can cope with.
The only solution if Bluesound cannot reduce the delay of 50ms, is for the picture to be delayed, which I'm not aware is a possibility in most TV's.
What is extraordinary is that nobody has really noticed this before! My only conclusion is that some people are more sensitive to it than others. But as an audio professional it's completely unworkable for me, so my Soundbar will be going back.
By the way it's easy to confirm this- simply take the analogue out of your TV in to a (non-processed) loudspeaker and it's immediately obvious.
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+1 Just bought the PowerNode 2i two days ago, now banging my head against the wall for not researching this forum first. No review highlighted this lipsync issue. I replaced my analogue amp by the PowerNode 2i using the analog input for now and am now stuck this terribly delayed audio. Perhaps it is only the preconfigured 50ms, but it almost feels like 100-200ms.
From reading these posts, appalled by the seemingly unwillingness of support to offer a solution to this problem, and now on the fence whether I should immediately return the product while I still can, and then buy the next, much more expensive alternatives on my shortlist:
Juha posted this logextract, where can this be accessed? Is there any way to find and patch this predefined delay ourselves?
Does this problem also occur with the PowerNode 2 (not the 2i) is it even an option to install that version of the software?
Could it be that this fixed value of 50ms was only introduced in this version (from the release notes)?
BluOS 3.4.20. Released July 30, 2019.
• Adjustable lip-sync delay and new A/V mode for inputs.So perhaps the version just before it, just doesn't have this feature at all, thereby avoiding the issue?
BluOS 3.4.13. Released June 11, 2019.
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