Lip Sync - Node 2i (digital out)
Answered
Greetings!
Having below setup:
TV Sony XE9005 (Optical out) -> Node 2i (COAX Out) -> Genelec 8330a
There is annoying Lip Sync issue
I can adjust Lip Sync in Node 50ms-150ms, but delay is less than 50ms.
Any thought how to tackle this?
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Tony, no one wants for their request to be marked as answered and forgotten right away.
And you are doing exactly this. You didn't pass any feedback from developers for more than half of a year which means you didn't even pass our issue to the development team.
And you act arrogant and snobbish what is unacceptable for a support team. I'm a product manager myself and I would fire any of my support team members once I'd seen this behavior.
OK, we can understand that you are tired being a support, tired of all of us with our stupid "wanna this wanna that oh my device is not working", but we didn't deserve to be treated like that.
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I wish I had found this sooner as well. I really enjoy the bluesound equipment. We have a powernode 2, 2 x flex, soundbar and a Powernode 2i. I’m really disappointed with the lip syncing it’s been bugging me for months, in some ways I’m glad to find I’m not the only one, in others I’m shocked Bluesound haven’t done something about it. Come on guys you advertise this as something the powernode is able to cope with. It’s one of the reasons I bought it! Come up with a solution.
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Almost a year passed after Tony W. marked this thread as "Answered" and forgot it.
About 4 years passed after first occurrence of this problem according to this forum.
I'm getting used to be neglected by arrogant support.
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Hi there Ken,
Are you a company man or just a consumer? Have you red what has been diskussed in the thread? Then you would know that the latency is a Bluesound issue and not a Bluetooth issue. When Node is connected by an ordinary Bluetooth receiver (V5) to the optical input or the audio input the latency is within 20 ms. When connecting Node via its own Bluetooth facility the latency is 150 ms or more.
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- The OP was rasing issues about Optical input. It's better not to lump different issues together.
- A simple internet search will return endless complaints about Bluetooth latency in all kinds of situations, not just about Bluesound.
Did you see that I complained about the latency on the optical input and suggested discussing Bluetooth separately? Why making groundless accusation about "company man" instead of discussing real issues?
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Ken, apologize for assuming you as a "company man". But I got the feeling that you ment that Bluetooth is perfect and everyone else is to blame. So, what is your contribution the the thread?
Still when using Bluesound as a Bluetooth speaker you get a severe latency which you do not get with an ordinary Bluetooth speaker. Using a Bluetooth receiver connected to the optical och analog input on the Bluesound the latency is much lower. So, the question is what is wrong with the built-in Bluetooth facility in Bluesound.
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Thanks to everyone for raising this lip-sync issue. I currently have a NAD 3020 v2 and was looking for a compact roon ready amplifier. Sorry bluesound, but I will skip this time.
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Hello, everyone!
Tony, your arrogance is already came at the price of at least 2 customers.
Maybe you will descend from your heavenly position and spill some light of hope to your unworthy customers regarding the issue? More than a year passed by now, don't tell us you still did nothing
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And for god's sake unmark this thread as answered as long as it is not.
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Hello everyone, I have almost a month with the goal in mind of acquiring the powernode 2021 this Saturday, July 3, 2021 I have planned to go to pay the porwenode with a distributor, I live in Mexico, but I was just disappointed to know that there is a delay On the lips with the HDMI function, I am a couple of days away from being able to change my purchase decision for this problem that as read in the post does not seem to want to give a solution
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I've just bought a Soundbar 2i and unfortunately have to report exactly the same problem. The 50ms delay makes watching anything on a screen impossible. The "AV Mode" gives the user the ability to introduce more delay, which is of no use.
The problem, as we all now know, is the audio needs to be delayed less than 50ms or in fact not at all (or even the picture delayed with audio at 0ms!).
I am an audio engineer in musicals and we use radio mics on the performers. I've spent many years fine-tuning delay in professional audio systems at the highest level globally (West End and Broadway). In the musicals we need to delay the audio back to the stage using highly accurate delay methodology. This is because the speakers are much closer to the audience than the performers.
Bluesound devices have an inherent 50 ms delay. When you are sitting in your living room about 6 feet away from your screen the image is arriving before the sound, so the last thing you need is to add more delay in the audio chain. Over a small distance the brain will coalesce the image and the sound. In truth, the sound could be behind the image by up to about 30ms, and all would be well, but 50ms is just outside what the brain and nervous system can cope with.
The only solution if Bluesound cannot reduce the delay of 50ms, is for the picture to be delayed, which I'm not aware is a possibility in most TV's.
What is extraordinary is that nobody has really noticed this before! My only conclusion is that some people are more sensitive to it than others. But as an audio professional it's completely unworkable for me, so my Soundbar will be going back.
By the way it's easy to confirm this- simply take the analogue out of your TV in to a (non-processed) loudspeaker and it's immediately obvious.
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Update: returned the PowerNode, bought the Cambridge Evo 75, problem solved.
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For people who can return the unit without penalty, I'd recommend giving it a try. During my time with a Powernode 2 (optical output from a TV), the Lip Sync problem was not usually noticeable without paying specific attention.
There are the odd times that the problem became bothersome. Such problem may be alleviated by playing with the delay settings on the TV or software player. But that would be an extreme case and not something you want to do more than once in a blue moon.
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Hello Juha,
I have escalated your case to our support crew -- it may be best to work with them to troubleshoot this further.
Regards,
Sam R.0 -
Juha, I have contacted Bluesound via Facebook as long as support is ignoring us on forum and got answer from their PR (I think so) team.
>Hello Eugene,>Our BluOS Support Crew has informed us that the issue you are experiencing has been reported to our QA Lab for further investigation. Although it may seem like a simple fix, our support team has assured us that it does require further testing.>We appreciate your patience and encourage you to contact them if you have any further questions.I hope that support team will answer us here from now on.If not, we can always contact Bluesound management on Linkedin or Facebook to ask if there is some progress on the issue.0 -
Tony, that's what people call "ignoring" – I've asked a question more than a week ago and you ignored me.
You are clearly unwilling to communicate, this is unacceptable.
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Just bought the node 2i and indeed an unexpected audio delay. So now I need to directly feed my active speakers and switch with a remote (which I thought I wouldn't need anymore after buying Bluesound) to switch to TV sound (and back!) which would otherwise be automatic. Would be a great fix....!
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One of the reasons I bought a powernode 2i was to get rid of the D/A (analogue out) on my TV-set. (My old amp only had analogue inputs).
I connected optical (digital) out from the TV-set to the powernode - and to my surprise there was a lag in the sound that I could not get rid of - 50 ms is too long delay. Very annoying - before buying the powernode, I reflected over timing issues between sound and picture, and decided I thought this kind of quality product should be able to handle this kind of issues. Sadly, it did not. This is just a "mee too" comment in this conversation.
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Exactly the same thing with me trying to set it up as a 2:1, I have just purchased an optical lead thinking this might help but clearly it won't. Looks like it's going back to the dealer, oh well. Wish I'd seen this thread before, I wouldn't have bought in the first place. Anybody have any suggestion on what to replace it with?
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I just wanted to voice my support of this issue as well. It would be great to remove the 50 ms lag. It sounds insignificant but actually very detectable to the ear. I previously had a much cheaper set up that didn't have this problem so this was a bit of a disappointment in my view.
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So I've now spent several hours looking into this and I am afraid there is no alternative than to send it back. Which I will do with a heavy heart as the sound quality is amazing (this really stings). I've also bought a new TV so have been on to them to see if we can lag the sound coming from the TV, sadly no go there too. What I am genuinely confused about is why you would produce an amp with a HDMI input that cannot work with a TV, very very confusing to the point of mis-selling... Had high hopes for Bluesound, sad really...
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Unfortunately i also purchased a Node and am now experiencing this issue with audio delay. Since this transforms a relaxing movie into a frustrating evening of drinking until the delay is less noticeable i have to make a choice. Do I choose to live with the inevitable health issues due to the heavy drinking, or do i replace the Node with a more suitable device?
Before i make this choice i would like to ask Bluesound if they perhaps can give us an indication of the timeframe within which we possibly can expect a modification concerning this issue?
If there is no intention ,now or in the near future, to adress this issue for us please inform us also.
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Hi folks (Tony included),
I just bought a new external Bluetooth receiver with optical and analog outputs. This is a quality BT receiver with 5.0 firmware. Connecting this BT to the analoge input on my Powernode (not i-model) I experience a very low audio latency, less than 20 ms. This was the same with the optical input. But connecting my computer directly to the Powernod by its own internal BT receiver the latency is about 150 ms or more. However the latency is not stable. It varies widely between 60 to 200 ms and more. So if you want to get rid of the audio latency buying a quality BT receiver is the solution.
According to the specification of the Powernod it has the BT version 5.0 and also the codex aptX. So how come, Mister Bluesound, that the internal BT of the Powernod has an extreme latency but an externat BT receiver has none?
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Bluetooth latency is largely not a Bluesound issue and probably should be discussed separately.
For optical input, why defaulting all BluOS device to grouped status? Given that there may be multiple components in the chain to produce a sound, any latency reduction would help.
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+1 Just bought the PowerNode 2i two days ago, now banging my head against the wall for not researching this forum first. No review highlighted this lipsync issue. I replaced my analogue amp by the PowerNode 2i using the analog input for now and am now stuck this terribly delayed audio. Perhaps it is only the preconfigured 50ms, but it almost feels like 100-200ms.
From reading these posts, appalled by the seemingly unwillingness of support to offer a solution to this problem, and now on the fence whether I should immediately return the product while I still can, and then buy the next, much more expensive alternatives on my shortlist:
Juha posted this logextract, where can this be accessed? Is there any way to find and patch this predefined delay ourselves?
Does this problem also occur with the PowerNode 2 (not the 2i) is it even an option to install that version of the software?
Could it be that this fixed value of 50ms was only introduced in this version (from the release notes)?
BluOS 3.4.20. Released July 30, 2019.
• Adjustable lip-sync delay and new A/V mode for inputs.So perhaps the version just before it, just doesn't have this feature at all, thereby avoiding the issue?
BluOS 3.4.13. Released June 11, 2019.
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Hi, Rodney!
Glad to hear that you have an option to return the product. You should decide for yourself whether you want to keep it, but in your place I would return it immediately. This issue has been raised for years now and feels like that Bluesound company doesn't care about this annoying Powernode bug / problem at all and about their customers as well.
I took a look at the app and was unable to find logs in the place where it have been. I googled for it and looks like it has been removed from the app for "security reasons".
https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360049294954-Logs-Not-Accessible-in-3-10-0
There are some irritated customers who have posted ways to break in the BluOS on the internet, try to google it by some obvious keywords. I think that is pretty possible that you can fix it on your own for now, but keep in mind that once in some BluOS update the security hole will be closed.
I'm not sure, but I think that before this version you mentioned everything was even worse with real 200-250 ms delay.
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Thank you very much for your response! As I will be go on a Holiday have to make the decision or the return period will expire, and don't have time to further research the issue so I packaged it up now.
I now know that whatever I will buy to replace it (probably the Cambridge Evo) I will need to get it demoed properly in a shop.
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Thinking of buying the new Powernode that came out this year. Seems like the perfect amp for HiFi streaming + TV sound, which is exactly what I'm looking for.
But boy am I glad I came across this message board. Is the delay problem still an issue on the new Powernode?
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To Leyenda, I would assume the issue is not fixed, for two reasons:
1. The release notes do not mention that this issue was addressed.
2. I don't see the productmanager returning to this forum with happy news like 'good news guys, we listened to you and fixed it'
To Ken, not sure how you would delay the video on your TV to match the delayed audio through the PowerNode!
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Hi Rodney
Reading through this thread you will note that we have addressed the fact there is nothing to resolve here. Ken in fact hit the nail on the head. Many newer model TVs do have video compensation, but we are confident you will not require it.
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