Room Correction / Dirac Live
Answered
Hi!
Sonos now offers room correction with TruePlay. It would be very nice if Bluesound would also offer a room correction or even Dirac Live in the future.
Considering that Bluesound is a premium product I would even expect this for the 3rd generation of Bluesound devices. Even better would be a software update for some of the old devices.
Nothing improves the sound as much as a good room correction...
For Dirac Live I would also accept a considerable surcharge.
Best regards =)
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1+ Dirac for the Node 2i
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Hi Martin
The NAD C658 is in fact exactly that product
Room correction happens at the DAC end - even if the NODE were to have DIRAC, all the filtering would be removed - or worse re-corrected - by the external DAC. For Dirac to work as designed you would have to go analogue out. So your answer is an external DAC that supports DIRAC...
I would recommend the NAD C658, both professionally and as the BluOS Player in my Living Room.0 -
Dimensions and weight:
- NAD C658 - 435 x 100 x 405 mm / 10.1 kg
- PowerNode 2i - 220 x 70 x 190 mm / 1.72 kg
The NAD is 6 (!) times bigger and heavier than the PowerNode.
I would be happy to switch to the NAD but it's just too big and heavy for a purpose where I use the PowerNode.0 -
Felix Lorenz I don't think that the statement about "Room Correction happens at the DAC end" can be applied in general.
As Jerome states, products like the MiniDSP DDRC-22D are applying Room Correction entirely in the digital domain. (Although the measurements used for corrections are of course done entirely on analog sound output in your room)But MQA is a rather big feature for Bluesound/NAD, so I'm guessing that Tony-W means that pre-DAC DSP might mess with the proprietary MQA control bits which need to reach the DAC unaltered - in order for the final MQA unfold/render to be performed correctly.
So by putting DSP in between the player which handles first MQA unfold (decoding) and the DAC which handles the second unfold (rendering), you will probably loose the last unfold.
This means that you will "only" get half of the sample rate encoded in the MQA file - e.g. 96KHz vs 192KHz.
(Which would be perfectly OK for me, since my DAC is not MQA compatible anyway :-)/Martin
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+1 on Dirac for Node 2i. at min expand EQ features.
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I am considering purchasing the Node 2i and would easily pay a fair bit more to add Dirac.
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Hi Dale
Then you may want to consider the NAD C658 BluOS Streamer by our good friends at NAD Electronics. All the same features of the NODE plus more, including DIRAC built in.
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> Then you may want to consider the NAD C658 BluOS Streamer
That is significantly larger and heavier than Node.
A room correction is mainly a software feature, it doesn't require any significant increase in space and mass.0 -
Would be a great feature. As I have understood the messurement is done on a computer. Se we only need to be able to uploaded the created filter/correction. Or have I misunderstood.
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The way MiniDSP or NAD products work with Dirac is that you connect the PC / MAC that runs Dirac to the device via USB. When you perform the calibration the filter is then automatically stored in the device in one of the memories. Then you can assign the filter type or disable it. I don't think you can save Dirac filter in a file and upload them into a device to be honest. If the Bluesound node could read REW filters would be already great.
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DIRAC Room Calibration is model and room dependant. You can save filters on your NAD M10 and upload them to another NAD M10, but unless that second M10 is in the same place, using the same speakers, not sure what benefit you would receive. an NAD M10 filter cannot be uploaded to say an NAD C658.
So no even if we were to consider adding DIRAC to Bluesound, you could not upload filters to it. At this time, we are not considering adding DIRAC to Bluesound in the foreseeable future.
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Please see
https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360043416033/comments/1500000181082
Thanks for #LivingHiFi
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Room correction is a key feature nowadays. It‘s a pitty, that bluesound is ignoring this. I do not want a NAD. I like the compact powernode like the n330. It has 8 times the processing power of a 2i…
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I think we all understand the nad/Bluesound commercial link - using an outdated commercial model of leaving a feature out of blue sounds complete model range to “protect” nad sales from fear of competition is ridiculous- the products should compete and stand on their own - a basic addition of DSP to Bluesound products should not be a threat to NAD - if it is then their whole commercial strategy and apparent technical design must be pretty flimsy - come in Bluesound staff - send the message up top - it’s simply not good enough to leave your loyal customers hanging without access to Dirac - I don’t want to change my node 130 - it’s the perfect form factor for my needs
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I have been thinking about this. Not easy to add Dirac solutions in my case due to the limited connectivity of the Powernode. One possible solution I found (for my usecase) is to add something like a MiniDSP NanoAVR HD in the mix (in combination with my Apple TV). If you have something different than the Powernode, you can look at other alternatives from MiniDSP; Flex or the 2x4 HD. Or use PC for playback and get the Dirac License for that.
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Just add delay and EQ in software. You can manually measure or use an external device to measure (smartphone app with build in or external mic).
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@nygafre
I have a Bluesound Node 2, what could be a good combination with it to get Dirac Live support for especially sharp high frequencies? And can you elaborate on how to use a PC as a playback device, how would this be connected and work for a Hi-Fi music stereo setup?
@Michel
Can you elaborate on how to add this delay and EQ? I am using the Bluesound Node 2 by streaming music from Tidal/Spotify.
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@Casper
First of all, I’m no expert :). But..
You could add a miniDSP 2x4 HD or miniDSP Flex (better) to the chain by going optical out from the Node -> miniDSP -> Amp. Then you can use the inputs on the miniDSP to add your other sources too.
(You can also connect subwoofers to the miniDSP).If you get the Dirac PC license you run a software called Dirac Live Processor, which lets the audio out run though the Dirac correction.. then you connect your PC w/ Dirac to the Node, and can run any music player you want on the computer. The downside is that other sources you use won’t get the Dirac correction.
Personally I think a hardware solution is more flexible, especially for subwoofer integration.
You still have to buy the Dirac license if you get the miniDSP. And a UMIK-1 for the measurements :).
A slightly different route is to do manual EQ (parametric EQ) by the Equalizer APO software for windows on your computer. Then you’d only need the UMIK-1 and REW to do measurements in your room, and then apply manual filters etc. steeper learning curve, but indeed something I am looking into myself now, as I don’t want to spend too much money if I don’t have to.
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True, but not for the powernode.. only subwoofer out and no line-out. Mini dsp adds delay which cannot be compensated.
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@ Michel
Yeah, I was adressing it with respect to using the Node 2, not the Powenode.
Considering upgrading from my Powernode to a miniDSP/poweramp solution.
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Roon and a measuring app on a phone will get what you guys want (on all Bluesound hardware) but it’s not free.
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Not really.. doesn’t solve the problem with other inputs/sources other than local music library on Roon.
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@nygafre
Yeah, I am in contact with MiniDSP about such as solution either the 2X4, Flex or SHD boxes.
If I use Dirac Live processor software on a pc, how might I connect it to the Node 2 and would it not make more sense to just send the output directly to the amplifier, then?
I am also considering buying a NAD network streamer like the C658 with BluOS and Dirac Live to replace the Node 2, from my point of view the MiniDSP is a cheaper alternative with better capabilities for DSP and it also supports network streaming. And in case I would add a MiniDSP to the node 2 instead of replacing it I would off course incur some latency. MiniDSP estimates about 13,5 ms, but I am unsure if this will affect the stereo music quality since I would imagine both channels would be equally delayed thus the signal should still maintain integrity.
Lastly, there is the option of setting up a roon server and stream from that to the Node 2 and off course using either a phone of microphone to take measurements.
It is quite confusing what could be a good option since there are so many options, I should just try out the roon option to start with.
Does anyone have good experience with either of these options and did it solve your room correction issues and in what ways?0 -
@ Casper Rubæk
Indeed, good point - I didn't cross my mind that the miniDSP had bluetooth streaming.
Well, yes if running DL from the computer there strictly isn't any need to go via the Node. I would say it depends on how you connect and the quality of your sources. Lets say you use Roon for PC playback, then you could connect to the Node wirelessly if you don't have a good quality soundcard or e.g. optical out on the PC. That way, you ensure good quality of signal sent to the Node -> miniDSP -> amp (assuming sub-par audio quality from PC sound card).
The NAD C658 is very interesting, and could be a perfect solution for this use case. I have indeed read many posters online being really happy with this unit. The only thing I personally don't like is the size.. and price! And again I'd be inclined to go for an all in one solution like the C399 with the BluOS/Dirac module if I were considering it. The C658 still looks great though!
I'll try to sum up from my perspective: If I didn't already have the Powernode, which frankly I am quite happy with (no DSP aside), I'd probably get the NAD C389 or C399 w/ the BluOS/Dirac Module.
The second option, and very much a contender, is simply to get the miniDSP Flex and just get a separate power amp (I'd go for Audiophonics MP250NC RCA). Quite simple and straightforward system. I'd then connect all my sources to the miniDSP and have them run through DSP/Dirac Live. One benfit of the miniDSP solution is that you can set your own filters PEQ (parametric eq). So based on measurements with REW, you can assign filters manually.. but yeah, this is more time consuming and not at all straight forward.. getting the Dirac Lisence for the miniDSP is of course the smoother solution.
I'm at a stage now where I have realized (and measured) that I only need/want correction for the sub 300 Hz register. I will probably skip Dirac Live at this point in time, and instead set my sights at a subwoofer with PEQ to even out the response. The new Dirac Live Active Room Treatment looks very interesting too, but it is not easily available on hardware units (only Storm Audio I think). In any case, I'd need a solution where I am not limited to the Dirac Live software for computer playback only, all my playback/sources would need to go through Dirac Live.
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Thanks, everyone for your feedback.
DIRAC room correction is not available in Bluesound and we have no immediate plans to incorporate it. Please remember it is third-party licensed software as a result there is a cost to incorporate it. When you purchase a DIRAC enabled product, you are also purchasing DIRAC. Adding DIRAC to Bluesound would result in a cost increase to Bluesound Products.
If DIRAC room correction is important to you - consider looking at some of the fine BluOS Step up products available from our good friends at NAD Electronics.-1 -
“Room correction is a key feature nowadays. It‘s a pitty, that bluesound is ignoring this. I do not want a NAD. I like the compact powernode like the n330. It has 8 times the processing power of a 2i…”
Which is exactly why Bluesound’s sister company NAD have the M10
https://nadelectronics.com/product/m10-v2/
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