Room Correction / Dirac Live
Answered
Hi!
Sonos now offers room correction with TruePlay. It would be very nice if Bluesound would also offer a room correction or even Dirac Live in the future.
Considering that Bluesound is a premium product I would even expect this for the 3rd generation of Bluesound devices. Even better would be a software update for some of the old devices.
Nothing improves the sound as much as a good room correction...
For Dirac Live I would also accept a considerable surcharge.
Best regards =)
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Dear all,
after I read about the quadcore processor in the node I really think that Dirac would be possible. Thus I like to request a reevaluation if you are willing to add the opportunity of Dirac Live to the Bluesound Node. Of cause it does not need to be part of the standard scope of delivery, I am and others too are willing to purchase the Dirac license on their website/ shop. I guess you can negotiate a nice commission agreement with them.
For my impression without a proper room correction (and Dirac is state of the art) Bluesound will be easily replaceable by products from other brands in future.
I would highly appreciate a reply from Bluesound team.
Best regards and stay safe and healthy!
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Please see
https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360043416033/comments/1500000181082
Thanks for #LivingHiFi
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Time to poke the bear with a stick again - please please please - it’s 2022 - you have a great product that is leading edge in its price category - keep it that way and add Dirac live as an option (happy to pay extra to subscribe via my node 130) - keep your loyal customers happy give us Dirac ❤️🙏
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Hi all,
Cannot agree more: while it is understandable that Powernode cannot get room correction for free, I'm more than sure a large number of us would be perfectly happy to pay for it.
Mentioned on other posts but more/better EQ options should be doable at a relatively limited cost for Bluesound and would be highly (highly) appreciated by the vast majority of their users who have selected Bluesound gears for the Hi-fi/Better than Sonos approach.
Many thanks for considering this
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Agreed. And something like Sonos does with Trueplay and the mic of an IOS device should be more than fine if dirac is not an option.
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We just need to read between the lines here. Bluesound is a subsidiary of NAD. It is not that they don’t have the ability. They just won’t - probably due to (fear of) creating too much overlap/competition to NAD by also adding Dirac functionality to Bluesound products. We have to upgrade to more expensive NAD products to get it. I believe this is a mistake, and ofcourse e.g. Sonos could become a more serious alternative by offering Trueplay, and also being cheaper. I am currently a happy Powernode-owner, and have previously owned NAD products which I have loved. I believe NAD is oversaturating their number of products/tiers, and complicate things unecessarily for consumers. (E.g. choosing between the Powernode, NAD D3045, C368, C700 and C389?). In the end I don’t think it is the right strategy, even though the marketing department might be able to find new ‘slots’ for products to fill in between models/lines + the offering of BluOS modules for certain models. Either how, I would love to see some kind of room correction for the Powernode one day.
Dirac will probably trickle down to Bluesound eventually.. in a few years.1 -
Room correction is a key feature nowadays. It‘s a pitty, that bluesound is ignoring this. I do not want a NAD. I like the compact powernode like the n330. It has 8 times the processing power of a 2i…
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“Room correction is a key feature nowadays. It‘s a pitty, that bluesound is ignoring this. I do not want a NAD. I like the compact powernode like the n330. It has 8 times the processing power of a 2i…”
Which is exactly why Bluesound’s sister company NAD have the M10
https://nadelectronics.com/product/m10-v2/
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I think we all understand the nad/Bluesound commercial link - using an outdated commercial model of leaving a feature out of blue sounds complete model range to “protect” nad sales from fear of competition is ridiculous- the products should compete and stand on their own - a basic addition of DSP to Bluesound products should not be a threat to NAD - if it is then their whole commercial strategy and apparent technical design must be pretty flimsy - come in Bluesound staff - send the message up top - it’s simply not good enough to leave your loyal customers hanging without access to Dirac - I don’t want to change my node 130 - it’s the perfect form factor for my needs
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I strongly agree with all the other commenters on this thread. I really also need Dirac Live because the sound image distorts a lot without it. What alternatives do we have other than buying the NAD M10 or NAD C658 which are totally unnecessary? I have a much better amplifier already, why should I buy an overpriced amplifier with music streaming just to get Dirac Live? I would like to just buy my own license of Dirac Live and use with whatever hardware box I want including the Bluesound.
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I have been thinking about this. Not easy to add Dirac solutions in my case due to the limited connectivity of the Powernode. One possible solution I found (for my usecase) is to add something like a MiniDSP NanoAVR HD in the mix (in combination with my Apple TV). If you have something different than the Powernode, you can look at other alternatives from MiniDSP; Flex or the 2x4 HD. Or use PC for playback and get the Dirac License for that.
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Just add delay and EQ in software. You can manually measure or use an external device to measure (smartphone app with build in or external mic).
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@nygafre
I have a Bluesound Node 2, what could be a good combination with it to get Dirac Live support for especially sharp high frequencies? And can you elaborate on how to use a PC as a playback device, how would this be connected and work for a Hi-Fi music stereo setup?
@Michel
Can you elaborate on how to add this delay and EQ? I am using the Bluesound Node 2 by streaming music from Tidal/Spotify.
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I mean this is missing in the current software. But there is no need for hardware changes to add delay and EQ options.
Bluesound should offer this features. For example just for integrating a sub which has delay from the build in amp or room correction. Now there is no option to delay the main speakers. Same for EQ.
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@michel
Yes. I don't think that will happen, unfortunately.
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@Casper
First of all, I’m no expert :). But..
You could add a miniDSP 2x4 HD or miniDSP Flex (better) to the chain by going optical out from the Node -> miniDSP -> Amp. Then you can use the inputs on the miniDSP to add your other sources too.
(You can also connect subwoofers to the miniDSP).If you get the Dirac PC license you run a software called Dirac Live Processor, which lets the audio out run though the Dirac correction.. then you connect your PC w/ Dirac to the Node, and can run any music player you want on the computer. The downside is that other sources you use won’t get the Dirac correction.
Personally I think a hardware solution is more flexible, especially for subwoofer integration.
You still have to buy the Dirac license if you get the miniDSP. And a UMIK-1 for the measurements :).
A slightly different route is to do manual EQ (parametric EQ) by the Equalizer APO software for windows on your computer. Then you’d only need the UMIK-1 and REW to do measurements in your room, and then apply manual filters etc. steeper learning curve, but indeed something I am looking into myself now, as I don’t want to spend too much money if I don’t have to.
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True, but not for the powernode.. only subwoofer out and no line-out. Mini dsp adds delay which cannot be compensated.
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@ Michel
Yeah, I was adressing it with respect to using the Node 2, not the Powenode.
Considering upgrading from my Powernode to a miniDSP/poweramp solution.
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Roon and a measuring app on a phone will get what you guys want (on all Bluesound hardware) but it’s not free.
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Not really.. doesn’t solve the problem with other inputs/sources other than local music library on Roon.
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@nygafre
Yeah, I am in contact with MiniDSP about such as solution either the 2X4, Flex or SHD boxes.
If I use Dirac Live processor software on a pc, how might I connect it to the Node 2 and would it not make more sense to just send the output directly to the amplifier, then?
I am also considering buying a NAD network streamer like the C658 with BluOS and Dirac Live to replace the Node 2, from my point of view the MiniDSP is a cheaper alternative with better capabilities for DSP and it also supports network streaming. And in case I would add a MiniDSP to the node 2 instead of replacing it I would off course incur some latency. MiniDSP estimates about 13,5 ms, but I am unsure if this will affect the stereo music quality since I would imagine both channels would be equally delayed thus the signal should still maintain integrity.
Lastly, there is the option of setting up a roon server and stream from that to the Node 2 and off course using either a phone of microphone to take measurements.
It is quite confusing what could be a good option since there are so many options, I should just try out the roon option to start with.
Does anyone have good experience with either of these options and did it solve your room correction issues and in what ways?0 -
@ Casper Rubæk
Indeed, good point - I didn't cross my mind that the miniDSP had bluetooth streaming.
Well, yes if running DL from the computer there strictly isn't any need to go via the Node. I would say it depends on how you connect and the quality of your sources. Lets say you use Roon for PC playback, then you could connect to the Node wirelessly if you don't have a good quality soundcard or e.g. optical out on the PC. That way, you ensure good quality of signal sent to the Node -> miniDSP -> amp (assuming sub-par audio quality from PC sound card).
The NAD C658 is very interesting, and could be a perfect solution for this use case. I have indeed read many posters online being really happy with this unit. The only thing I personally don't like is the size.. and price! And again I'd be inclined to go for an all in one solution like the C399 with the BluOS/Dirac module if I were considering it. The C658 still looks great though!
I'll try to sum up from my perspective: If I didn't already have the Powernode, which frankly I am quite happy with (no DSP aside), I'd probably get the NAD C389 or C399 w/ the BluOS/Dirac Module.
The second option, and very much a contender, is simply to get the miniDSP Flex and just get a separate power amp (I'd go for Audiophonics MP250NC RCA). Quite simple and straightforward system. I'd then connect all my sources to the miniDSP and have them run through DSP/Dirac Live. One benfit of the miniDSP solution is that you can set your own filters PEQ (parametric eq). So based on measurements with REW, you can assign filters manually.. but yeah, this is more time consuming and not at all straight forward.. getting the Dirac Lisence for the miniDSP is of course the smoother solution.
I'm at a stage now where I have realized (and measured) that I only need/want correction for the sub 300 Hz register. I will probably skip Dirac Live at this point in time, and instead set my sights at a subwoofer with PEQ to even out the response. The new Dirac Live Active Room Treatment looks very interesting too, but it is not easily available on hardware units (only Storm Audio I think). In any case, I'd need a solution where I am not limited to the Dirac Live software for computer playback only, all my playback/sources would need to go through Dirac Live.
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Hi, I hereby support the Dirac proposal. Yesterday I assisted a friend with the setup of his NAD 3050 and was quite surprised about the Dirac integration. I would also like to have THAT for my NODE - it doesn't even have to be free. Best regards from Germany
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Well...
After one issue too many, I gave up on Bluesound and opted for a competing product with support for a broad range of services and parametric EQ onboard. (Which I'll use for basic Room Correction with HouseCurve or REW).
It cost less me than a third of a Bluesound Node for a device that has bit-perfect output and is about the size of an Apple TV.
So I find that others now check most of the boxes that I had hoped Bluesound would eventually do.I should mention that the issues I experienced with Bluesound were all with their early generation products. It's quite possible that they have improved their firmware, software, enclosure, and component quality over the years.
However, I can't help but feel that Lenbrook may have backed themselves into a corner with their need to differentiate their Bluesound and NAD Classic/Master products.
Of course, "Master" products should perform better than entry-level BlueSound and offer a superior feature set - and the BlueSound platform IS great, and worth paying for.But, it seems that competing streamers and standalone DACs now offer superior DAC implementations and decent streaming platforms at a lower price.
So, I still hope that Bluesound will implement Dirac or other "kick-ass" features to differentiate their products from competitors.
Best regards,
Martin1 -
Hi Martin,
Thank you for your post and your support to better sound processing into Bluesound idea. Totally understandable to turn to an alternative IMO given how critical decent EQ is to good listening and how ignored that request was by Bluesound for years (esp. when alternatives offer so much more features and support reactivity for so much less money). Maybe Bluesound will eventually do something but no one knows if and when. Fortunately competition is moving fast in the meantime
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Hi JG.B.
It would be nice. However, as others have mentioned, it's probably not likely to happen.
Lenbrook does have a broad range of BluOS products, and it's probably not feasible for them to accommodate our every desire for mix-and-match components.In my case, I stream digitally to a Gato DIA-400s Amp with a decent built-in DAC.
Lenbrook would probably prefer me purchasing a brand new NAD M33 rather than adding a cheap BlueSound streamer to my existing system.Aside from the whole "cannibalization" issue, there would likely be technical/licensing problems with MQA and Dirac in the digital domain.
(As far as I know, only Roon has been allowed to mess with DSP for MQA and still pass an "authenticated" stream to an MQA capable DAC?)Personally, I would be okay with a "light" Room Correction, just a step up from Sonos, for Bluesound (and losing final MQA rendering in external DAC). For example: Add a basic 4-6 point parametric EQ for sub 500Hz correction, partner up with someone like HouseCurve or REW and integrate basic measurement and curve editing on mobile devices.
In my opinion, that would be a killer feature for BlueSound - and not in conflict with their higher-end products.
Best regards,
Martin1
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