Subwoofer level from Bluos app (NAD C658)

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  • Official comment
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    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    If you have DIRAC on - you shouldn't be adjusting the sub-volume separately.

    Consider a different DIRAC slot and curve for those extra bass requirements.

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    Eli Barbie

    Thanks.

    I do use Dirac, but depending on the type of music played and the mastering of each specific track/album, sometimes there is a need to change the level of the lower end. This is a common practice in any AV receiver. If Dirac live can access the internal subwoofer levels. then it also should be theoretically possible to do so using the bluos app. 

     

    Moreover, sometimes I prefer to turn Dirac off for some type of music, in that case, the subwoofer level becomes almost inaudible...

     

     

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    Josh Bauch

    Adding a vote to this request as the sub out signal on the C658 is very weak, we've seen this across multiple owners of the device and a variety of subs.  In some cases the signal is so weak it won't kick a sub out of standby unless you turn the volume up well beyond the intended listening level.

    I've also contacted NAD in June with the same request but don't know if that helped at all, so figured I'd add on here.

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    Eli Barbie

    My svs SB2000 gain is at 2 o'clock, Dirac is on and using a bass boosted curve and still I cannot feel the impact of the subwoofers! With my Denon avr I must torn the gain to 10 o'clock and still bass is very load.. Something is very wrong with the C658 design.

    Dirac only balance the EQ not the levels. I'm considering returning the C658 and getting a minidsp solution instead. This is very disappointing. I got the c658 to improve my music listening experience but ended up preferring my Denon avr over the NAD due to the lack of bass from the subs...

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    Tony W. - Product Support Manager

    Hi All

    This is really an issue for NAD Support as this is hardware-related - support@nadelectronics.com - that being said, our good friends (further) down the hall at PSB Speakers suggest there is or may be a sensitivity setting on your subwoofer settings. Check your subwoofer documentation for further information.

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    Eli Barbie

    Thanks for the info. Yes, there is a gain setting on every powered subwoofer but in order to reach a decent level with the C658 this gain must be cranked to the max position. Since the same subwoofer is also used in a home theater environment by connecting its second input to the LFE output of an AV receiver, the max gain trick cannot be used because it makes the subwoofer too loud for any AV setup.

     

    I'm no expert, but I really doubt that it is a hardware limitation. This is because during the early process of Dirac live calibration, the user can change the level/sensitivity for each channel independently in real-time. If the Dirac app can access independent level settings, then it should be possible for the bluos software to do the same. But of course, NAD developers must allow this first.

     

    I think the biggest problem is that the bluos version is generic to many hardware platforms.  I'm not sure whether different development teams are used per device, or is the bluos developed by the same team for all devices. 

     

    I've contacted Dirac Live support and they told me to connect the subwoofers to the main speakers pre-outs instead of the dedicated subwoofer outputs as a temporary solution until the full bass management version of Dirac is available. This is the reply I got today:

    ---------------------------
    Flavio Fellah commented:

    Hello,
    I suggest checking the configuration in your NAD C658.
    Until the new Dirac Bass Management will be available the subwoofer/s should be connected, measured and corrected as if it was another driver of your main speakers.
    Dirac will adjust the gain and delay of those low frequencies that are output by the sub/s in order to align them with the main speakers.
    In other words currently, the crossovering of the subwoofers should be downstream of Dirac Live.

    Best regards

    --------------------------

    So it looks like Dirac Live team is aware of this NAD/bluos related limitation. I've also check the user manual of the minidsp SHD, which is a very similar product to the NAD C658, and they do offer independent subwoofer/speaker level and distance settings.

     

    What good is a subwoofer output if you cannot control the subwoofer levels? What if you are using a separated power and a passive subwoofer with no gain/sensitivity settings? While the C658 is very well built, in terms of its software and user UI, it feels more like an early beta product.

     

    Not only no option to control speaker/sub levels, there isn't an option to adjust the sensitivity levels of each source input. This is a basic feature you find in any other preamplifier or integrated amp or receiver.

     

     

    I did contact NAD and got a kind of a dogging response that they will bring this to their developer's attention but they are not sure if this can be implemented due to possible hardware limitations. 

     

    BTW, connecting the subwoofers to the second speakers' pre-out drastically increase the subwoofer levels to a satisfactory solution, but this way I cannot limit the main speakers' lower end to prevent them from damage.

     

     This is really frustrating. Also, an expensive high-end device like the C658 should have its dedicated support forum, and not a very generic bluos only related forum. 

     

    There is am owners thread at AVS forum, but unfortunately, neither bluos nor NAD support people are taking any participant in it:

     

    https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3038854-official-nad-c658-thread.html

     

    The issue of no source input levels nor subwoofer level adjustments was brought up there by many users...

     

    I can't even understand what good is access to crossover settings in the blueos app? These settings belong in the device's settings from the main unit. The only time you need to change crossover settings is when you replace your speakers. What is really needed in the bluos setting UI is a subwoofer level adjustments. Also, an auto loudness would be very much appreciated to balance the listening experience at any volume level...   

     

     

     

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