Music Services: add Apple Music?
Answered
Hi,
Just thought, let's drop the question again.
Does Bluesound expect (short term) to add Apple Music as a "Music Service" in the Node 2i?
NOT via Airplay2, but as a Music Service in the Node 2i.
Thanks!
Danny
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Official comment
Hi Danny
Apple's third-party integration model is AirPlay 2. They have no plans to develop an API for products such as Bluesound.
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I can't quite believe we're still talking about this, finding ways round the native integration of Apple Music into BluOS. To hear "All that being said we continue to work with Apple on this goal" being given out after years of getting nowhere is just staggering. It's not like Apple Music is a niche service!
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Add Waze to the list now (sort of, it looks like some app-to-app integration). Apple clearly has a path to integrating Apple Music into 3rd party apps now. They may have their own priorities for who they are willing to work with. It would be nice to have Bluesound acknowledge that Apple is supporting such integration, and they are pursuing it. Or blink twice to let us know they are already on it and can’t say anything because they are under NDA. I’m preparing to continue building out a Blu-based system, but without Apple Music integration I’m on hold. The Airplay 2 setup is a pain for me, but simply beyond the technical capability of the rest of the family and most guests. And I’ve already been down the Tidal road; Apple Music is not going anywhere for a while in our house.
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So now Tesla will support Apple Music with their next update. Getting harder and harder to keep up the story that it's not possible and that AirPlay 2 is the only way to get Apple Music to a BluOS device. I have it on my Samsung TV, Sonos, HiFi Rose, and now Tesla.
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I vote for a long read technical post from Bluesound explaining the difference between the integrations hms007 lists and Bluesound.
There are plenty of techy savy people in this thread that would love to read that I think ^-^
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Possible!
But considering Tony’s posts about “something something Apple doesn’t offer this API”, I doubt this so heavily that I’m going to have to lie down to bear the weight of the doubt 😄
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Tesla brings Apple Music in their cars (an embedded app, not using Apple airplay)
when the powernode will also have the same ?
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Also wondering Tony....
Audi has the same... Native Apple Music streaming from E-tron..
So am wondering what is the problem still.. using blue sound :-)
Thanks for support!
/Danny
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The reason why I am so upset with Bluesound is that when I decided on buying my Node, of course I did my research and stumbled upon this thread, amongst others. Bluesound*s messaging was always that they are working with Apple to integrate an Apple Music API. Besides promises, nothing happened. I have shown above that MusicKit Web has a streaming function (apparently not HiRes yet). Bluesound didn't know. I rest my case.
Had Bluesound been more upfront with their customers that there is a snowflake's chance in hell that this function would come, I would have not invested. Period. My mistake was that I was an optimist trusting in software folks to deliver. I made this mistake before and I hope I will never make it again. Never buy a system that cannot yet do all you need it to do based on the software developer's promises that they will deliver. They won't 90 % of the time.3 -
I think Tony is being as clear as he can and appreciate that he is likely constrained by what he's able to divulge. It's Apple's ball and they call the shots. Reading the tea leaves and speculating about what we'd like to happen is fun.
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Richard,
I am in total agreement with you. This thread is about support for Apple Music and Bluesound/BluOS. Since I work with Apple on a daily basis I understand fully how challenging it can be due to their culture of extreme secrecy. Furthermore Apple tends to address issues or add new functions on major operating system release boundaries. We may see some additional function in iOS 15. I also think that Apple is looking at the take-up of Spatial Music vs Hi-Res to see where they want to put their energies and investments. Lastly I do not expect that Apple will address Lossless streaming for 3rd party speaker manufacturers until after the fix it for their own HomePods first.
Like many of Apples partners Bluesound needs to wait until Apple provides a solution.Node's comments are not related to this thread and I agree the tone is not conducive to constructive conversation. We know Bluesound is doing as much as they can given the circumstances they are dealing with.
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soundy - I tried answering this some few posts before but I think some people may have thought it was a theory. Let me try to be slightly more specific this time. Back in 2005, Apple, along with many others, were looking at developing a wireless solution to transmit music all over the house. At the time there were a few solutions available including Apple's own Airport Express. But they were all only able to transmit to one device at a time. Sonos came with an elegant solution and beat them all to the punch. Later, Apple entered into a partnership with Sonos (I suppose it was because they truly had an elegant solution, and Apple likes elegant solutions). This partnership blossomed over they years resulting, at some point, in Sonos products being sold at Apple stores and also buyers of Sonos would get a free three month subscription to Apple Music (I am not sure if it was called iTunes at that time). So, this is how Sonos got access to the Apple native app. They provided something that nobody in the market could do at the time and Apple liked it enough to sign on the dotted line. Later, as time went, the streaming industry matured, many players entered the market, many products entered the market and Apple had a change of heart and decided that going forward, they will no longer allow native access to their store (Spotify made the same decision and is now using Spotify Connect as a link between their platform and third party devices). I believe Tidal is also moving toward the same direction and this is perhaps the reason all current Pioneer/Onkyo owners (which includes myself) have suddenly found that their hifi Tidal subscription can only transmit 96kbps AAC via the Pioneer/Onkyo app). So all manufacturers that were born after the change of heart of the main players (Apple, Spotify) will not have the native app on their platforms, and unfortunately Bluesound is a very young company formed way after this decision was made. This, I believe, is something that is not going to change no matter how much shouting there is. What is likely to happen though, is that Apple will create a Spotify Connect-like solution, which will then give full access to manufacturers like Bluesound and Bose and so on. Also, Apple might develop a DLNA-like solution (which effectively could just mean tweaking the existing Airplay) and allow connection only via wireless, but at full resolution. I am quite confident that at least one of the last two will happen, the question is when. So my advice to you is, keep your Qobuz sub for now and patiently wait for Apple to work through their issues.
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Do you have any update on applemusic,?
My system consist of a NAD MDC BluOS 2 module (not a 2i)
where are you working on?
can you inform me/us.
ill hope to hear from the support team.
gr Robert Jan.
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It's been 6 months since this thread was last commented on.
Can I ask if there has been any movement on the integration of Apple Music outside Airplay? Or should we give up ever expecting this to happen.
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Excellent question. I was just thinking about this and would love to hear some encouraging news.
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I would switch to Apple Music immediately, if you're in the eco system it's a no brainer and they provide the quality I want, but I'm not able to utilize it on my HiFi system since BluOS doesn't support it.
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On my side I'm thinking about to switch back to Sonos. I regret that I did switch from Sonos to BlueOS some years ago...
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This list of companies that do have direct Apple Music integration continues to grow. We can add Audi to the list this morning.
Two weeks ago, we saw Roku do the same.
At this juncture it seems that more partners are being added, but at a slow an seemingly one-off pace.
My 'hack' to use an HDMI splitter and the Optical in on my Node 2i with an AppleTV works pretty well, though the quality is limited to 48/24. It sounds significantly better than the Sonos Apple Music integration. It was a bit clunky to get this setup going from the Bluesound app interface every time I wanted to use it, so I ended up using Bluesound's excellent REST control API to build a script in HomeAssistant that gets things set straight with a single button press. The primary problem was that Optical inputs into Nodes weren't 'global' within the system, so I had to make sure to select the Node 2i that has the optical input as the master every time. The recently announced Hub will solve that problem.
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I think that now the integration with Apple Music is really necessary. I bought a node some months ago and I was really disappointed when I discovered that Apple service was not integrated (as Sonos does) but only usable with AirPlay… i opened a qobuz account, waiting a solution from bluesound but it seems we are still far from it..
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@Bob Andrews...
What I have observed in the recent years, is that the guys from Bluesound try to avoid certain answers:
Why is it possible on Sonos devices? Do we get Apple Music at all? What are the actual limitations?
How on earth is Bluesound avoiding these answers? They have been given lots of times – I know them and I'm not even following this closely...
Sonos had a special arrangement with Apple at the start of Apple Music to make the service more attractive. As others have said above. Whether Apple will open the necessary APIs to other manufacturers is anyone's guess (personally, I wouldn't hold my breath, but then again they just opened iCloud photos to Microsoft's photos app, so there you are). That is the limitation – it's just not possible for third party developers to access Apple Music that way. The only official way is Airplay.I don't work for Bluesound, and I'm not making excuses for them, I hoped for direct access once too. But it's just not true that these answers have not been given. It's all here in the forums.
Do I care now? No, music-wise, I'm on Tidal. And for everything else (Youtube, Netflix, whathaveyou), Airplay is absolutely bloody fantastic.2 -
@tony Maybe one thing that could be done sooner would be to display the stream information in the app when music is being Airplayed? Sample rate, bit rate, and compression method.
One of the links above suggested that lossless is only occurring with Airplay 1 which happens only from a Macbook. Yet I see Apple Music reporting "Lossless" in its playback window even from an iDevice. Rather than needing to speculate, snoop network activity, and/or do deep dives on proprietary Apple protocols, it would be nice if this information could simply be displayed from the BluOS app's own playback window (which does operate when Airplay is taking place). Thanks!
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Well, now Apple does offer music in hi-res lossless format. I would like to echo the op's request for a built-in solution that does not require routing the stream through the phone as it does with Airplay. If it's possible for others, it should be possible for Bluesound, too...
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I wonder if AirPlay will be able to carry hifi data at some point?
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Folks - lemme help, I am not constrained by anyone. Sonos signed a deal with Apple and with Spotify - then they changed their approach and are unable to nullify this agreement. Their new approach took away the choice from the consumer, you will interact with your device the way they want you to, not the way you prefer. If this is something you wish to change - best write to Apple and inform them how you wish to interact with your device while using their service. Bluesound will not be able to change this situation, but consumers, if they speak loud enough, can.
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I'm pretty sure MusicKit is just for IOS apps, it's been around for five years or so
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The video explaining the new API features is dated 2021. One hopes this bodes well for BluOS and AppleMusic. Incentives for developers include a commission for subscriptions initiated through their app.
This is entirely under Apple's control so best to lobby them to allow BluOS to have AppleMusic as a service.
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Like the others in this thread, I'm also waiting for a log-in to Apple Music on my node2i for listening to Hi-Res, which Airplay2 in its current state doesn´t support at all. Perhaps an Airplay3 is coming soon.....?
But everything could be solved right away, if you were able to stream directly to the Node with the music from Apple.
I just don´t get, that Bluesound is waiting for an API for this, because it works for others, but not knowing how they've solved it. But they have.
In my car, I have the possibility to log-in to both Tidal AND Apple Music, and then stream via 4G/5G, and it works perfectly.
Come on Bluesound, what´s the problem? Is the licensing to high or what?
Don't think so; with many modern cars and soundbars nowadays having built-in accounts.....
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Sonos is doing it, why can't you?
Airplay 2 will only work with 24-bit/48kHz but Apple's lossless music can be up to 24-bit/192kHz.
I'm on the verge of rapidly expanding music throughout the home I'm building. Your direct support for Apple Music will be required to be placed throughout the rest of my home.
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Would be really good with Apple Music as a service since I don’t even have airplay in my NAD T777. Don’t even know if it’s possible to buy a module and it’s very expensive if there is one.
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Currently many in the Hi-Fi Audio Industry are limited by Apple only providing AirPlay at this time, not just Bluesound. Direct Apple Music Integration is simply not available (the above, quoted MusicKit is simply not a solution for the third-party hardware environment). As an existing Apple Partner, once one is available to us, we will be happy to bring it to you.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
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