Roon still unreliable after upgrading to 4.0
Answered
Was hoping that BluOS4.0 would fix the latency issues and out of sync problems with Roon, but no, it didn't.. Running 3x NAD CI580V2 (14 zones in total in house) and they are not syncing correctly with other Roon-devices. They also suffer from weird things such as tempo shifts and music stopping.
(I have multiple other devices that works fine.. such as Devialet Phantom, and even Raspberry Pi's as Roon endpoints)
Any plans to work with Roon on fixing this? These devices are marked as Roon Ready, which I find to be a marketing fraud at this point.. I have been in long touch with Roon support and they said that the issues had been identified and being worked on, but then the communication stopped..
I run all my devices wired on a gigabit ethernet.
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Official comment
Hi Anton
This may not be a Roon issue after all in the way you described it here. I am escalating this to our good friends down the hall at NAD Electronics and one of their CI SMEs will reach out likely asking for log files.
Thanks for your patience...
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Same issues here. Using Node 2, Soundbar, Soundbar 2i, NAD T777v3. They play fine in Bluesound app but not in Roon Remote app.
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Yeah I have no issues to play music in Bluesound app, that works fine for me too, but I bought these devices specifically because of the Roon Ready support as I want to use Roon.
I really hope that Bluesound can really look into this seriously and either fix it.
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A Roon core reboot seems to have solved the issue at my end.
I could play roon on my Node 2 from the Windows Roon app and the Android Roon Remote app.
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Hi Wim
Anton's issue speaks specifically to an NAD CI issue...
...your issue in grouping, if BluOS works for multiroom playback and ROON does not but ROON single player works, this speaks to network bandwidth as a likely issue. Remember, your ROON Core turns everything into PCM then tries to send it out rather than have the individual players decode the file when received.
The chain is only as good as your weakest length. Both myself and ROON have spoken of this. Please start with reviewing www.bluesound.com/network101 and ensure all your wireless players have Excellent (Blue) signal strength in the Diagnostics page if you want to use ROON.
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My issue also occurs on Bluesound Node 2i.. I connected one just to see if it was the same. So the issue is not related only to CI. (Also on Roon forums I see others reporting similar issue with other NAD or Bluesound devices.)
Also I think bandwidth is not the issue here.. I run my entire setup on wired (Cat6a) ethernet, and my hardware is quite solid overall.
I run these switches
https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/usw-pro-48-poeEvery other Roon-device I've tried works fine (Phantoms, Raspberry pis etc) This issue is only related to Bluesound devices. Since I run a large (10+ zone) setup and I wanted a rack mounted solution I ended up picking 3x CI580v2 as core for it, but I think it was a mistake at this point.
I hope some technicans at Bluesound or NAD can look into this. I think it has to be replicated over at your technicians side to be properly evaluated. I think it should be very easy to replicate..Set up a setup of 5+ zones and try playing back Tidal or Internet Radio through Roon. I am sure you will encounter the same problems.
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Wondering aloud why the need for Power over Ethernet... since one of our sister brands does make a PoE powered product wondering if the additional functionality is creating an issue by BluOS ignoring it rather than being numb to it. Likely a red herring but is something to think about.
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I have a PoE switch because I have devices that are running on power over ethernet.
PoE is disabled on the ports that my NAD CI580v2 are connected to (since they don't require power over ethernet) though.
Are you in touch with any technicians at Bluesound or NAD Tony? Do you know if anyone is looking into the Roon status?
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Hi Anton as mentioned in my Offical Response comment please contact support@nadelectronics.com so our CI SME can assist
Tony
Anthony Williamson
Product Support Manager – Lenbrook International
Bluesound|NAD Electronics|PSB Speakers0 -
@Anton, Tony owns Support...
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Ok I am reaching out to support@nadelectronics.com, but the issues also happen on the Bluesound Node 2i, so I don't think this is NAD/Custom install-specific? (or perhaps it's the same support-team behind Node 2i as well, alltough it's not branded NAD?)
Even grouping the single Node 2i to one zone on the CI580v2, they don't play in sync when playing through Roon. (at the same time all my other Roon devices (Devialet Phantoms, Allo BOSS2) works 100%)
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Just want to add that I have been experiencing the same issue (and sense of frustration with NAD / Bluesound) regarding the CI580v2. Took a chance with the product after seeing that multiple Roon support threads related to this problem had been closed for some time and that the CI580V2 was still listed as "Roon Ready", and thus assumed a fix had been implemented. I am also lamenting my purchasing decision, hesitant to consider other NAD products going forward (despite brand reputation otherwise) until this is properly addressed, and even questioning my enthusiasm for Roon Labs for maintaining "Roon Ready" status, as I consider it tantamount to false advertising at this point.
My main takeaway from researching this issue in the Roon community posts is that the CI580 / v2 were working fine with Roon (as expected) for earlier customers, until a BluOS update eventually broke the functionality completely. Either a feature to rollback to an earlier BluOS version or an update targeting this defect would probably work for those like me, who intend to use the CI580v2 exclusively with Roon. I opened a ticket with NAD Support in late October and was unable to get a clear answer regarding if this bug is being prioritized with the development team, let alone any estimated timeline for release.
I was never able to sustain a RAAT stream to even a single CI580v2 zone for more than a few minutes (during several dozen attempts) before catastrophic failures, requiring at least a unit reboot and in some instances - a factory reset. Grouped playbook in Roon via Airplay is generally reliable (though not desirable), however, I am reluctant to upgrade to any new BluOS versions that do not specifically mention Roon or the CI580v2, as I also experienced some serious problems while trying to rename zones in the BluOS app, which suggested to me that there may be some emerging instability / compatibility issues with the CI580v2, and I absolutely want to avoid losing Airplay functionality in Roon as well.
Hopefully this matter will finally gain some traction within NAD / Bluesound, so we don't need to start making noise with Roon support again, on behalf of all the other stranded CI580 owners...
Thanks in advance.
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Hi Michael, thanks for pitching in here!
I got a response august 17th from Bluesound Support Crew acknowledging the issue but no time frame for any fixes.. 4 months have now passed.
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Hello,
I've come to find out about this bug. Does it still exist? Has an update been proposed?
I'm in a similar setup to you Anton, my audio multiroom project is coming to an end and I'm thinking of buying 3 nad ci 580v2 soon but when I see the problems encountered, I'm seriously thinking about another setup. I also wanted to take this hardware because it is rackable and Roon Ready... I also want to use it only with Roon. Well, it doesn't seem to be compatible at all... and clearly this can be seen as false advertising. Paying 5550€ for it not to work as indicated in the technical specifications is just creepy ...
If you can keep me informed, that would be great.
Thanks !
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I forgot... thanks for opening this thread. Like Michael, I saw “that multiple Roon support threads related to this problem had been closed for some time and that the CI580V2 was still listed as "Roon Ready", and thus assumed a fix had been implemented. »
I was about to validate my shopping cart... fortunately I did some research beforehand
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Hey there.
There has been some updates, and it's a bit more stable but definitely not perfect. Typically if I play many zones at once they end up out of sync sooner than later (when using Roon)
It does not seem to be a high priority to resolve from Bluesound/NAD, so my recommendation is to look for other hardware than CI580v2 if you plan a bigger setup.
I have heard that Whirlwind Audio should work well though
Personally I am considering to shift back to a RaspberryPi-based DAC-setup.0 -
Hey Chatelain,
I haven't upgraded the firmware in a while because Bluesound have not provided any specific updates related to this problem, and I don't want to introduce any more issues with an unrelated firmware change that breaks or causes additional instability with existing functionality (since there is no way to roll back changes and I am not convinced that sufficient regression testing is being conducted on the CI580 models prior to these firmware releases).
Having said that, I finally just gave in to using Airplay in Roon on this device, which generally works fine and does not seem to diminish sound quality as much as expected (even with 24 bit audio, which interestingly does still sound better to me than Redbook via Airplay in some casual blinded tests). However, this is not a tradeoff I would have been willing to make if I knew the situation beforehand, and would still very much prefer to have reliable RAAT streaming for enhanced SQ and grouped playback with other Roon Ready devices.
Still very disappointed in the lack of support from both NAD / Bluesound and Roon on this issue, though believe the hardware manufacturer is primarily responsible for driving a solution and is doing (albeit minor) damage to their reputation by failing to maintain Roon Ready functionality on a component that is still advertised with this key feature.
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Thanks for your quick replies! So my choice is made, I'm going to think about using other streamers for my 12 zones.
I also think that the Raspberry PI + DAC module solution is certainly a DIY solution but one that will surely best meet my needs... Just to be able to manage 2 zones on 1 dedicated vlan in order to be able to control access to the zones for guests. (I'd like guests to only have access to their bedroom (1 zone) + bathroom (other zone) managed from the bedroom TV or Roon remote from the wifi dedicated to this room and of course in the house (1 SSID per guest as Roon doesn't allow streamers to be filtered according to profiles). I'm not sure that the CI580V2 would have allowed me to choose 1 vlan for each source.
Thanks again for your advice
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Cool. Which DAC are you going to use?
I have noted there's a slight "pop sound" when changing songs and bit rates on many of the Raspberry Pi Dacs.
Also the Allo Boss2 Dac is great.0 -
I suggest you check out this Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@Gabster1
The Dac built are of much better quality but it requires more knowledge. I've been learning for 3 hours haha.
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