Regarding Tidals 24 bit flac
Answered
So Tidal is coming out with 24 bit flac, it is currently in beta testing available for those who are connected to Tidals beta program. And in the beginning only for iOS users and later it will also come to Android users.
My question is do you know if it will be available to stream this also through the bluos app to my bluesound or only through tidals own app ?
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@MotoWebmaster, it does solve a big problem for me. The Tidal Connect to BluOS in the Tidal app is very unreliable and keeps losing connection to my BluOS players or refusing to connect although speakers are visible (I have 5-700 Mbps in my home network), quite annoying.
As such, the more of the Tidal App functionality I get on the BluOS app, the happier I am. It also brings a better user experience in general.
That said, HiRes FLAC will make music sound better.0 -
Sadly the old problem with doublets is still there, I have albums where it shows the same album from an artist twice on my favorites list, and what it does is it takes one of the other albums that should have been there and replaces it with another so that there is now 2 of the same. When I check in Tidals own app I can see which album is missing from the list, then I know which one the doublet replaced. This have been going on for years now so im thinking this problem will never be fixed :(
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Hi Everyone,
Yesterday I faced this FLAC HiRes issue and I was really disappointed. Here is one more example for "down sampling":
Loreena McKennitt - An Ancient Muse
I am also looking forward the resolve this issue, because I also want to compare MQA with HiRes FLAC.
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Those albums that shows the MAX icon in Tidals own app is that Flac quality or ?
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Max is a tier, so the max icons means high res. In the Tidal app you'll see it that way
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I have got that information Lumin streamers had the update last week and now they can paly FLAC tracks over Tidal Connect.
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Given that it is rare to have capable product people in a thread like this, I wanted to raise a surprising discovery that I made today. While getting dressed this morning, I decided to play on TIDAL the awesome album, ‘Aural Sculpture’, by the Stranglers on my reasonably resolving budget system in my bedroom, paired to the Bluesound Node N130. Given that we are still waiting to get support from TIDAL for high res. FLAC, I suspected that the high fidelity reproduction I was hearing, with clear instrument separation, wide soundstage, pleasing vocal tones in the mid range, etc., was because I was listening to a high-res. MQA file. After checking the new Node app, I discovered that it is MQA all right, but only in CD quality (16/44.1).
To our Bluesound node friends in this thread who just acquired MQA assets, how can the relatively small MQA file sound objectively better than the lossless FLAC CD quality songs on Tidal and nearly as good as a high resolution file? I have no skin in the game when it comes to audio file formats. I like to think of myself as a music lover/audiophile first, and avid equipment nerd and researcher second. This result was surprising and begs a number of questions about what we will actually hear when FLAC on TIDAL Connect is fully enabled by TIDAL.2 -
Hi M, it's a great question that would take a while to answer. Technically in MQA Bob Stuart calls the folding of data "origami" which is meant to reduce the size of the files without losing any of their integrity. Remember he is the guy who created FLAC all of those years ago so there is a bit of legacy knowledge there. I really don't want to get into the bit this and bit that discussion, this is as you have heard about the effect on your ears, and if you really want to more fully understand about time correction and some of the other magic of MQA there are plenty of videos and docs available. To me MQA is about the T's, S's, decays on instruments and an overall richer listening experience. When an artist in recent times uses the tools and produces an album in MQA it means they have something closer to the original experience of the music. We did a listening test with a jazz group in the UK a couple years ago, where they played in a studio, it was transcoded into MQA in real time, and then played back over a power node 2i with some nice speakers. The artists were asked to judge what they heard as a reproduction versus what they hear as artists being there. The results were that they all said it sounded like it was live. To me that's the experience the team wants to share and for people to have.
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Thanks for the thoughtful response, @Andrew H. I have indeed done the research and watched Bob’s videos on what happens in the MQA process but I didn’t realize he also invented FLAC. He did talk about MQA resolving time smearing issues as a byproduct of digitization. I can clearly hear the difference.
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Installed BlueOS 4 on my Mac and it did work, but the experience is erratic. The music progression bar keeps going forward and backward within a single song, continues that behavior even when the song isn't playing.
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Can't wait for the flac support!!! I have done several tests on my audio system at home and the results were always that the MQA format was too harsh to my ears on the hi freq spectrum and while undoubtedly that usually clearly means more details and space perception it also simply made the songs very unpleasant to listen to, especially on higher volumes. On jazz and classics recordings this is usually partially acceptable but when it comes to rock and modern production tunes it becomes unbearable. I have a balanced neutrally sounding system and so am quite sensitive to frequency response changes on my favourite recordings. I have not observed this problem on hi-res flac formats and so really can't wait to have the huge Tidal hi-res catalog at my fingertips!
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I completely agree with @Martin. MQA does add a bit of digital harshness to the high frequencies, which can make modern hard rock and metal music sound even harsher and more difficult to listen to. I find the same albums through the Deezer Premium and BluoS apps (regular FLAC at 16/44.1 kHz), and the sound is much more "organic" without the harshness in that segment.
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@ Martin @Bane
Bit of a dissenting opinion, here. I had Qobuz and Tidal for a time, and I found that when compared directly, MQA tracks had more "presence," to use a guitar-world term. I didn't find it artificial or harsh at all — and live tracks seemed to really benefit from the process.
I am, however, interested in having options. And to be fair, I listen to a lot of jazz, which may benefit disproportionately froim MQA. But I'm looking forward in doing more indepth comparisons once we have the ability!
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@Guy
For smooth and easy listening music, I find that MQA provides that "presence" as you say. However, for guitar-driven music, i find that vinyl is the best way to get the most natural and organic sound. I especially noticed this on older releases from Thin Lizzy, Whitesnake, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. MQA can make guitars sound thin and analytical on these recordings. FLAC sounded more natural to me.
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@Bane
Fair enough! I think much of it boild down to the quality of the original recording, too. But I'm going to give a side-by-side comparison a shot, once I can. Looking forward to having the option to choose betyween them both, and to create playlists with what sounds best to me, regardless of container (?)
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@Bane, it's funny: I play guitar, and have a varied background — but most of what I play now is 1980s metal. I just don;t listen to it much, unless I'm learning a tune.
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Great exchange of our experiences, @Martin, @Bane, and @Guy. Mine are consistent with @Guy’s, with an ‘airiness’ around individual instruments and vocals more akin to the live performance in the studio. This is indeed one of the design points of MQA. With that said, jazz, classical, and EDM sound more immersive and three-dimensional to me, as compared to the relatively flat (e.g. difficult to separate individual instruments) sounding formats like FLAC, ALAC, etc. Regarding rock, listening to bands like Tool lead me to tow out my speakers a bit in order to hit a sweet spot for all genres, when listening to MQA.
Glad we can share our experiences and learn from each other here. As we all know, amplifier, speakers, DAC, room acoustics, our own hearing, etc. greatly influence what we hear so there is no black or white in this case.1 -
I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. Thank you for your constructive suggestions. It's important to have our own unique perspectives and share our experiences. I have a fairly high-resolution HIFI system, which allows me to hear all the mentioned differences. I love to be fully engaged in the music. I don't limit myself to high-quality audiophile productions. The practicality of streaming has also won me over, as it allows me to follow all possible genres and artists. I'm still waiting for streaming services to further improve their audio quality for a more faithful sound. I'm particularly excited to hear HIRES FLAC over BluOS and Tidal. Additionally, I've been playing guitar for over 30 years.
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@Bane @M @Martin
Totally on the same page as all of you, and looking forward to discussing our SQ impressions once we can direct compare through BluOS.
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I wonder why this discussion which is about BS supporting Tidal flacs has deteriorated to a discussion about MQA pros and cons. This is NOT the forum for this. We just need full support of whatever Tidal provide to their subscribers. If what Tidal provide is adequate or not or should be different, is an issue which should be affecting them and their subscribers, not Bluesound and their customers... Tidal seem to be releasing many new files only in flac hirez and not in MQA anymore so that should settle that issue. If BS can convince Tidal to support both FLAC and MQA concurrently and with equal visibility, so much the better, I'm all for choice.
On topic now, it seems competitive streamers already support Tidal hirez flacs (e.g. Lumin) or are in the advanced (beta) stages of supporting them (e.g. WiiM). So it is not a matter of Tidal providing the API updates anymore. Do Bluesound think people will not jump ship sooner or later either because of their slow update process and their unwillingness to share their plans with their customers or because of their vested interests in MQA? I'm not going to be locked in 16/44.1 just because of BS and I'm certainly not going to let BS force MQA down my throat just because I happen to have acquired one of their streamers. Anxiously awaiting support which is supposed to be coming 'soon..ish'..
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Yap. I have seen Lumin's news few weeks ago already.
I was as well afraid that now BS may take actions to build up the value of MQA as they made some spending on it even in spite of the majority of users willing to go for HiRes flac.0 -
@Nikos, As I've said already a couple times, we are in process of the Tidal updates and it is "soon'ish". As to the releases on format from Tidal, based on the search criteria it would appear that way in MAX but it is not true. The issuance of a track in Tidal is created in a lot of formats, MQA is a standard and included for all new content from the providers who support the format. Remember Tidal gets content from suppliers (music labels) who create and issue content in formats. MQA is one of those formats.
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Good clarification, @Andrew. Choice is what we want as discerning consumers. I’m not reading any forums with people blown away by the difference with high res. FLAC on Tidal, which is curious. Hope to see the update very soonish.
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@M - "Choice", it's the story of the hour. Lenbrook is fighting for Customers to have choice, it is always about choice, and we take that very seriously. If you are referring to the differences between high res FLAC and MQA then there is a lot of content already posted on the web from people using either library or another service then comparing to MQA. As far as the overall quality, we applaud additions of high res into platforms as we have always believed in this.
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"Soonish" Iv'e read quite som time now.. Please make this happen very Soonish! If I play qobuz with flac high res it sounds so much better than mqa. But Tidals ui is waaay better then qobuz.. I don't want mqa and I want to be able to choose either flac high res or mqa in a settings preference, because I know some people prefer mqa and then should be able to choose that before high res flac. I hope we soon will se high res 24 bit flac in BluOS with Tidal.
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This issue has evolved to access and choice. @Elias, you prompted me to action! I’m done reading about the theory and listening to others proclaim what format is better so I just subscribed to Qobuz, spun up numerous tracks I’m familiar with, listened to them in high res FLAC through my account on the Bluesound Node app and confirmed 24/96 or better bit rate and sampling frequency.
Based on my audio setup (Audiolab amp, bi-wired KEF R3, Node X) MQA sounds better—without a question. The song ‘Paris’ on the newly released Chris Botti Vol 1 album, for example, shows a night and day difference to me in musical fidelity, instrument and vocal separation, three dimensionality, and a sense of immersion with the music and artists BUT that’s my choice.
@Elias, as you rightly said, we must get the choice of selecting MQA versus FLAC (and ASAP). If not, TIDAL will lose me as a customer. I’m not alone based on all the Reddit posts.
Thanks for your comment on the need for choice, @Andrew H. Let there be choice for all and hopefully ‘nowish’ please 😀!!!1 -
Abonné depuis plus de 3 ans à tidal hi-fi plus j'écoute exclusivement sur un bluesound node 2i et de la vraie hi-fi ampli yamaha et enceintes Focal jmlab.
Mise à jour bluos OK enfin il y a les fréquences fichiers c'est pas du luxe !!! cependant à l'heure des IA tidal connect n'est toujours pas en flac hd avec bluos on se moque du client ! à 20 euros par mois merci d'accélérer la prise en charge !!! le flac Hires est bien meilleur en son audio que le mqa pas besoin d'être audiophile
En France il ya qobuz en Hires depuis des années et tidal a un connect vous attendez quoi que spotify connect arrive en haute résolution Merci de vous bouger !!!0 -
A few days ago I reached out to my Hi-Fi vendor for help.
He had some initial awareness but brought himself up on the issue and spoke with Lembrook. He had me factory-reset my Pulse 2i and try out Tidal Connect in different ways.
Yesterday we met at his shop and had a long discussion using his gear while I showed him examples using Tidal and Apple Music, on a variety of connection types. It was a great experience, but he mentioned that I started smiling when I installed Qobuz and activated the trial. I downloaded a song and loved it on his Pulse 2i.
My Tundra has a $7k system in it, but sounds better with Qobuz. The few more songs I downloaded and repetitively played on the trip home was a great experience. Didn't know that my Kenwood head unit could do 96khz FLAC. Downloaded some 24/192 songs that sounded wonderful on Bluesound, will try them in my Truck today.
Will also share that Qobuz is a different experience in my SONOS system as well, even though it's designed more for TV. SONOS limits to roughly 48khz, but didn't think about technicals when listening - it sounds wonderful.
My Hi-Fi vendor made some new equipment recommendations, which includes a new Bluesound widget. I wanted to test things first to make sure Bluesound doesn't negatively impact me again. Will likely have him order the new equipment in a few days.
Abandoning Tidal for Qobuz won't be the solution for everyone. For me, I'm willing to make adjustments to have fun again.
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Wanted to remind Bluesound that the progression bar issue on my Mac is still very annoying.
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I wanted to address the "soonish" comment, that doesn't mean this week. You've all asked for choice, consider how Max gives you access to content and then you may better understand how Lenbrook is working to support choice.
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