Lip Sync - Node 2i (digital out)
Beantwortet
Greetings!
Having below setup:
TV Sony XE9005 (Optical out) -> Node 2i (COAX Out) -> Genelec 8330a
There is annoying Lip Sync issue
I can adjust Lip Sync in Node 50ms-150ms, but delay is less than 50ms.
Any thought how to tackle this?
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Offizieller Kommentar
What happens if you use analogue out? We often see external DACs adding their own delay.
We cannot lower the delay lower than 50ms for multiplayer grouping reasons.
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Do not have analog cables to test.
Understand 50ms requirement for groupping. But it would be great if lower delays would be available when groups are not in use.
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What is the delay when AV sync is off? Feels that it much more than 50ms. If thay would be close to 0ms, I could adjust rest from speaker end.
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Hello Juha,
I have escalated your case to our support crew -- it may be best to work with them to troubleshoot this further.
Regards,
Sam R.0 -
Hello!
I just bought a brand new Powernode 2i and having annoying lip-sync issue as well while using it with my LG tv.
I've tried analogue / ARC inputs, the issue exist on both.
Can you reveal Bluesound's plans and timings on this issue please?
I hope you will update the firmware to allow us to use less than 50 ms lip-sync delay while not using groups.
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Hi Evgenii
As mentioned, for grouping reasons we cannot lower the timing to less than 50ms. This level is in fact lower than the industry standard for multipurpose streamers.
If you have no intention of grouping your players, you can try disabling A/V Mode all together, but that may worsen the issue. It will worsen the issue if you group your POWERNODE to other players.
Please also consult your TV and other devices in the audio chain to ensure they are not adding delay as well.
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Hi, Tony!
Only thing changed in my audio chain is Powernode, and I have never seen noticeable delay before.
>As mentioned, for grouping reasons we cannot lower the timing to less than 50ms. This level is in fact lower than the industry standard for multipurpose streamers.
But I'm not using groups at all and don't plan to, why can't you just allow me to lower timing while no groups present?
Logic in this case can be that simple:
1. There are any groups? Lock minimum delay to 50 ms.
2. There are no groups? Unlock minimum delay or lock it to real hardware minimum.
3. Group added, but selected delay is less than 50 ms? Raise it up to 50 ms and lock minimum delay to 50 ms.
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Thanks for your feedback
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Sure, but what about my request?
I like your product, it's really nice and convenient, but delay in movies is killing me.
I don't want to use groups, so 50 ms looks like some artificial restriction for my amplified stereo-only setup.
Do you plan to do something about it? Is there are any options to get rid of it? Maybe some hidden engineering menu, or something like that?
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Evgenii,
I have exact same issue with Node 2i.
my support request has been without any action/response for 10days.Have a feeling that they don't take this seriously and have no plans to fix it
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Juha,
I hope that's just a misunderstanding and guys will pay some attention to TV users as long as their products have HDMI onboard and is clearly intended for use with TVs.
I tested "A/V mode" yesterday, delay became even worse with A/V mode disabled.
Juha, let's do this in a proper way: follow this link, comment and upvote it, please https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360047214174-Lip-sync-issue-request-for-low-delay-mode-to-watch-videos-
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Evgenii, found following from logfile
When Disabling AV Mode
Jun 18 17:35:41 (none) user.info ./ms.pl: CaptureCodec::setLatencyLimits CaptureCodec.pm (265) lowLatency=0 latencyLimits=250,1000Jun 18 17:35:41 (none) user.info dspout: Command(l=10): L250
Jun 18 17:35:41 (none) user.info dspout: capture_latency: 50000µs -> 250000µs
When Enabling AV Mode (50ms)
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info ./ms.pl: CaptureCodec::setLatencyLimits CaptureCodec.pm (265) lowLatency=1 latencyLimits=50,150
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info dspout: Command(l=8): L50
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info dspout: capture_latency: 250000µs -> 50000µs
So looks like Disabling AV Mode sets Delay to 250ms??? Should go to other direction (close to 0ms)
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Juha, wow!
That's really impressive, thanks for exact numbers.
Yeah, that is really looks like disabling A/V mode sets delay to 250ms – 250 000 microseconds.
I will take a look at the logs as well, looks like we can get some more interesting info out of it.
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have same issue with Bluetooth. Very annoying while watching videos.
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Hello, Tony!
A lot of time have passed and I’m coming back with exact same questions.
Do you plan to do something about it? Is there are any options to get rid of delay? Maybe some hidden engineering menu, or something like that?
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Issue is still here with us, it will not disappear magically
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As mentioned, thanks for the feedback but BLUESOUND Players do not include analogue or home theatre bypass as their primary purpose is a multiroom playback system.
Your feedback has been passed along for future consideration.-2 -
Tony, the thing is:
1. Bluesound Powernode 2i owners manual located on your website at https://www.bluesound.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/POWERNODE_2i_Owners_Manual_July2019.pdf states the following:
"HDMI ARC: Using an HDMI cable, connect one end to the HDMI ARC input of the POWERNODE 2i and the other end to an ARC-enabled HDMI output on your television. You may be required to enable ARC in your TV settings. Consult your user manual for more information. The HDMI source will appear as HDMI in the Navigation Drawer of the BluOS App."2. Powernode page on your website is featured with pictures of a Powernode 2i as a center of home theatre system:
2.1. https://www.bluesound.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/POWERNODE-2i-Feature-x-On-credenza-with-TV.jpg - even the name of picture here
2.2. https://www.bluesound.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WHT-POWERNODE-2i-amp-large-speakers.jpg3. Video introducing Powernode on a Powernode page depicts Powernode 2i as a center of home theatre system https://youtu.be/VSBPYW87szM
So Bluesound Powernode 2i is clearly designed and intended for use with TV as a center of home theatre system.
We, your users, have a problem which is spoiling our experience with your great product.
First problem was reported 4 years ago, it's already enough time passed for you to consider it.
But all we're getting is "thanks for feedback" and attempts to assure us that this should be this way.
Instead of something substantial like promise to fix it in some adequate time.
So please contact the developers and return with something real.
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Hi, Tony!
Can you explain why don't you want to help us with this issue please?
It is definitely a minor issue and it can be fixed by almost any developer in minutes. Maybe little more if you will choose to implement some logic or extra UI around the solution.
We have found the exact problem – it's the artificial delay added with some Perl-script command:
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info ./ms.pl: CaptureCodec::setLatencyLimits CaptureCodec.pm (265) lowLatency=1 latencyLimits=50,150
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info dspout: Command(l=8): L50
Jun 18 17:35:47 (none) user.info dspout: capture_latency: 250000µs -> 50000µs
You can just allow us to use values down to 0 here and that's all, problem fixed.
And you will have one more qualified answer in your personal Bluesound knowledge base ;-)
PS: I've managed to measure audio lag and found it's around 90-92 ms. Looks like ~40 ms is the sound processing delay and 50 ms is the controllable one.
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Juha, I have contacted Bluesound via Facebook as long as support is ignoring us on forum and got answer from their PR (I think so) team.
>Hello Eugene,>Our BluOS Support Crew has informed us that the issue you are experiencing has been reported to our QA Lab for further investigation. Although it may seem like a simple fix, our support team has assured us that it does require further testing.>We appreciate your patience and encourage you to contact them if you have any further questions.I hope that support team will answer us here from now on.If not, we can always contact Bluesound management on Linkedin or Facebook to ask if there is some progress on the issue.0 -
Hi Evgenii
We are not ignoring you. As mentioned, it is a current limitation of 50ms. The reason why are discussed above. Also as mentioned, it has been passed along to our Quality Assurance Team for review. Based on the response from our Social Media team, you see they are in fact reviewing it. Unfortunately, these are not quick fixes and do take time. This is also exasperated as our QA Team is no longer physically located in the lab but working out of their homes due to our organisations commitment to slow or halt the spread of COVID-19.
The lag you are seeing of 90ms indicates other factors are contributing to the problem such as perhaps, your other equipment such as the TV and/or poor network signal to the rear players which can be looked at here; www.bluesound.com/network101.
Thanks for your continued enthusiasm and feedback, and for #LivingHiFi.-1 -
Hello, guys!
Any news on the issue?
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I'd like to add my voice of support to this issue. We're experiencing lag that actually feels more prevalent than when I first set up my PowerNode 2i. This is the centerpiece of my living room sound system for both music and tv/movies, and I have no plans to add any groups. I would greatly appreciate a low latency mode.
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Hi James - please select Help, Send Support Request so we can help diagnose the apparently added lag...
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Tony, that's what people call "ignoring" – I've asked a question more than a week ago and you ignored me.
You are clearly unwilling to communicate, this is unacceptable.
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Just bought the node 2i and indeed an unexpected audio delay. So now I need to directly feed my active speakers and switch with a remote (which I thought I wouldn't need anymore after buying Bluesound) to switch to TV sound (and back!) which would otherwise be automatic. Would be a great fix....!
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One of the reasons I bought a powernode 2i was to get rid of the D/A (analogue out) on my TV-set. (My old amp only had analogue inputs).
I connected optical (digital) out from the TV-set to the powernode - and to my surprise there was a lag in the sound that I could not get rid of - 50 ms is too long delay. Very annoying - before buying the powernode, I reflected over timing issues between sound and picture, and decided I thought this kind of quality product should be able to handle this kind of issues. Sadly, it did not. This is just a "mee too" comment in this conversation.
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Exactly the same thing with me trying to set it up as a 2:1, I have just purchased an optical lead thinking this might help but clearly it won't. Looks like it's going back to the dealer, oh well. Wish I'd seen this thread before, I wouldn't have bought in the first place. Anybody have any suggestion on what to replace it with?
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I just wanted to voice my support of this issue as well. It would be great to remove the 50 ms lag. It sounds insignificant but actually very detectable to the ear. I previously had a much cheaper set up that didn't have this problem so this was a bit of a disappointment in my view.
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So I've now spent several hours looking into this and I am afraid there is no alternative than to send it back. Which I will do with a heavy heart as the sound quality is amazing (this really stings). I've also bought a new TV so have been on to them to see if we can lag the sound coming from the TV, sadly no go there too. What I am genuinely confused about is why you would produce an amp with a HDMI input that cannot work with a TV, very very confusing to the point of mis-selling... Had high hopes for Bluesound, sad really...
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