Issue using grouped loudspeakers kind of volume drop on one loudspeaker
Beantwortet
Hi,
while testing I recognized a kind of volume drop using two or more loudspeakers in a normal group. Last testing showed that it‘s with only two grouped devices, doesn‘t matter if both are Flex2i or Pulse2i.
Testing scenario is playing flac from Vault2i on two grouped loudspeakers, both connected by WLAN. I place them in front of me and I sit in the middle. I setup volume so both sound identically loud and play the music.
At the beginning it sounds like a stereo setup with a wide soundstage, all fine.
While playing suddenly it sounds different and the middle of the soundstage seems to move to one side.
This changes after some time again and it gets fine again.
This can also change by pause the playback and play again, or skip the track or changing time on timebar.
I know this kind of setup should be a fixed stereo group, maybe there it doesn‘t happen. But...
If you setup a system in a bigger open area, for example kitchen one, dining one and living room one player. They all should be independent but when grouped you get these moving soundstages what sounds strange.
btw. first I thought smartgain could be the reason, but it‘s off now.
not shure if it‘s WLAN related, will test with LAN asap...
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Offizieller Kommentar
Hi Stefan
If you setup a system in a bigger open area, for example kitchen one, dining one and living room one player. They all should be independent but when grouped you get these moving soundstages what sounds strange.
You are making some incorrect assumptions here. They will always be independent. Yes, they are playing synchronised but based on their own characteristics and volume level. This is as designed, as we cannot guess what your individual levels will be required for each room. Open the Player Drawer and adjust their volumes independently.
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O.K. so with LAN it seems to be the same or pretty similar.
It doesn‘t sound like an echo and so I would think it‘s about latency differences.
It sounds more like an volume drop on one loudspeaker, which changes after some time again. If I move my ears between the two loudspeakers one seems more silent.
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I believe I was not clear enough about my issue, so I try again:
So following base audiosettings on both Flex2i:
soundsettings: off
Replay Gain: off
output mode: mono
volume limit: -90 dB to -20 dB
So same hardware, same firmware and same audiosettings.
1. Starting playback FLAC from a Vault2i on one Flex2i and grouping the second one to that Flex2i.
2. setting up the volume on both speakers individually but that way the volume sounds identical
3. sitting in the middle or better stereo triangle of these two speakers and listening
Now I recognize changes in the soundstage after some time or if I pause for a while and playback than. Can't really say what is happing it seems one speaker drops in volume or the other increases, don't know but one speaker gets louder than the other. After some time or pause for a while and start playback the volume is the same again etc.
I hope this makes it more clear....
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Are there any recommanditations about the Multicast settings of a network? I did a reconfiguration of my network LAN and WLAN and switched to IGMPv3 and MLDv2 and restarted all my players and loudspeakers. I have to test more, but at the moment that seems to have changed this behaviour... Will report back...
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Hmm, it happens again when playing spotify connect on a group. Have to check FLAC from Vault2i again, but that seemd to work after the network changes. But with Spotify Connect the issue is there at the moment...
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Hi Stefan
Check all the players in the group and ensure all the wireless players have good WiFi signal; https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/201940663
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All show excellent with -42 to -44dB for WiFi.
Btw. I had this issue with LAN too...
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So connected LAN to my two Flex2i and grouped them with a Powernode2i on LAN. Same issue happening, but tested different sources and:
a. from Vault2i seems fine at the momentb. from Spotify issue happens
c. from Radio Paradise issue happens
d. Amazon Music seems fine
e. TuneIn issue happens
f. AirPlay 2 from iPad issue happened. I had another, volume dropped suddenly and got higher after some time, but on all devices the same way.
Maybe sources from internet and if the playqueue is not used could make a difference? Tryed to figure out if quality of musicfiles makes a difference, but was not able to make this clear.
The issue sounds a littlebit like when you change the +/- of speaker connections. The music moves from the middle to the outside. Sometimes it seems like a volume drop on min. one speaker.
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I have a similar if not identical issue, when I have my two flex 2i stereo paired the sound sometimes moves from center to one side and back again (when its not supposed too/at random). I cant seem to find any reason as to why as this happens both via wifi and bluetooth connection. This happens when listening to spotify as well as watching movies/youtube videos, I have yet to try other material, but I doubt thats the problem.
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Sounds like my issue, it‘s a littlebit hard to describe but it sounds strange and needs to be solved. I tested again with two Powernode2i in my dining and livingroom because it‘s open area. Same here and both are connected by LAN. Playing from Spotify and pressing pause and again play, maybe more than one time shows that issue too. But it happens while playing after some time again and again, so not only when it‘s controlled.
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Hi William
What you are hearing are network packets being lost on the secondary player of the group. Check out www.bluesound.com/network101 for tips. You may have to break the fixed group to properly troubleshoot this.
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If I understand you correctly you´re telling me it´s because of a bad connection between my secondary player and my router and not a bad connection between my two players right?
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Tony, do you believe the same for my issue? and what can I do to avoid this?
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At William - Correct
At Stefan - follow the advice I provided...
If problems persists, Help, Send Support Request in the App
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I sent the logfiles of two Flex2i while playing in a group and after the issue happend two/three times. This time they were connected by Wifi but like mentiond this happens also if they are connected by LAN. And this happens not only with these two Flex2i, it happens also if I try it with two PowerNode2i connected by LAN.
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Hi, I have a similar problem with two Pulse Flex2i coupled in "Stereo Pair".
The stereo image moves from one Pulse to the center at the beginning of each new piece of music.
The problem is independent of the source (streaming internet, NAS, USB, ...), file format (FLAC, ALAC, WAV), network (WIFI, Ethernet).
I tested with an identical signal on the left and right channels and it seems that the phase between the two channels varies during the playback of a music file.
The same files played on my Node2, linked to an analog amplifier, are corrects, the stereo image is stable in the center during all playback.
I have already used the support but it just reload the firmware without solving the problem.
It's time for Bluesound to look at the problem.
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Hi Alain
It's time for Bluesound to look at the problem. - way ahead of you
The issue is networking related - please disable AV/Mode on your FLEXes to add a slight delay to allow for network throughput. Check it out; https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360021056034
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Hi Tony,
Thank you for your answer but I don't use the Optical Input neither Analog Input, so the AV/Mode is not applicable.
Nevertheless,I disabled AV/Mode on the two Pulse Flex and as expected, the problem is still there.
The default is really strange because I perceive it with the speakers but not with the headphones (left Pulse headphone output to the left channel of the headphones and right Pulse headphone output to the right channel of the headphones).
Can the explanation be a fault of one of the digital amplifiers of one of the Pulse Flex ?
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Hi Alain
What you are describing is not hardware related. Please select Help, Send Support Request in the App so our Support Crew can take a closer look at your log file which is sent automatically
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Hey guys, ran into same problem. Did you manage to solve yours in the meantime?
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Hi alex, for me the problem kind of solved itself. I dont know if it was WIFI related or if there was a nessesary update that solved it. My best tip for you is to send in a diagnostics report via the app and let them see what you're working with.
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Hi Alex,
it was solved for me completely, but I am sorry I can't tell you what exactly the solution was. I did so much settings here and there and there were some updates so...
Some things that should be done:
- use flow control for ethernetports on a networkswitch
- switch on IGMP Snooping and set it up correctly
- if using WiFi for the players, check if the APs really support multicast streams, many APs or AP systems limit or block multicast over WiFi
- got the Info that BluOS doesn't like QOS, maybe that info was not detailed enough and with certain settings it would work, but I switched off QOS on my APs (Ruckus)
- depending on the individual network, the network hardware and the devices on the network mostly it's a good idea to seperat some devices in individual VLANs to avoid traffic at ports and devices were they shouldn't be
- check the WiFi strength and check it not only one time and esspecially when you have issues. I had the issue that my Blusound players often were connected to an AP located fare away and not to the nearest one. So I setup some setttings within the WLAN system so it tells clients they should switch to another AP faster. Not shure if the Bluesound devices can handle these feature, but they seem to connect better.
But, since the last 3.10.x updates I am not absolutely shure if it is really solved for me. But the issue seems only on my analog Input. Before I had that issue with all sources, but now it seems more Input related. Was not able to check if only analog or even digital Input but using my Laptop as source to analog in of one Flex2i shows me that issue again. I need to check it more deeply because this connection is not directly, I had the feeling playing music on the laptop worked etc. So maybe it's also audiofile dependend because I recognized it pretty often while listening to webcasts and maybe there it is more an issue of the recording.
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Ahh, forgot to write:
- for WiFi connection to players I now have a individual SSID for Bluesound with only 2.4 G. With that I was able to do some more settings only to this SSID with multicast, QOS etc. This SSID routes in the same VLAN like my other mobile devices but these devices are on a other SSID with both frequencies.
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Appreciate your answers, Stefan and William!
Working in IT I manage to understand most of that stuff. What I don't really get is why establishing enterprise grade networking is required to run a pair of premium network/wireless speakers.
My 2 flexes are connected using ethernet only. Router does support IGMP snooping and also does the switch sitting right at my desk, where the speakers are connected. The issue did happen initially on WiFi connection aswell.
I could probably work around analog input, but am getting it with Radio/Spotify sources aswell.
My support ticket about that is ongoing, just wanted to ask for your status here. Thanks again.
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