Blue sound Node 2i and Rotel Michi Connection
Beantwortet
Hi,
I have a new Blue sound node 2i and Michi X3 and want to stream hifi music from Tidal. I have the premium account for master tracks and have connected the Blue sound with a optical cable. Question I have is do I enable the Blue sound DAC or enable the "MQA external DAC" option in the settings menu?
I have tried both options and when I use the Blue sound DAC the Michi displays 96khz signal on the front panel, when I switch to "MQA external DAC" playing the same track I only get a 44khz signal?
What is the better quality DAC to play music from? One would think the Michi.....? Or is the Blue Sound doing something different?
FYI - I tried analog and the digital connection sounded better.....
Are there any 196khz tracks that I can try? I have only seen 96khz so far from Tidal..
Thanks!
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Offizieller Kommentar
Hi Kurt,
"What is the better quality DAC to play music from? One would think the Michi.....? Or is the Blue Sound doing something different?"
Different is a good word here. What is better only you can tell. Here is a list of 192kHz tracks that you can test: https://tidal.com/playlist/1cbce60c-2412-451e-a1e1-39faf87b617bBest, KriHad
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Thanks!
I have seen that playlist and funny that the songs I played that are masters still only read 96khz but also most of them only show up as CD quality on the Tidal and Bluos app....?
Any confirmed 196khz tracks to try??
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MQA digital output is limited to 96hkz, if not using an MQA external DAC. This is just the "MQA Core" after the first "unfold".
Is there any indicator on your Michi X3 for MQA decoding? An MQA DAC is supposed to "unfold" the encoded 44.1khz data stream to its full glory, up to 24bit/352khz.
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I'm not sure about 196kHz tracks that you also ask for Kurt, but when I play the suggested playlist of 192kHz tracks, the BluOS status shows:
<mqaOFS>192000</mqaOFS>
<quality>mqaAuthored</quality>And the MQA logo with the blue light shows in the BluOS app too.
Good enough detail for me.
Best, KriHad
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Thanks guys,
Now this is making sense to me, when the Blue sound DAC is enabled I see a 96khz INPUT signal on the Michi which is the maximum digital output for the Blue sound device.
If I turn off the Blue sound DAC I see a 44khz INPUT signal to the Michi (the unfolded signal). Now the question is what is the Michi doing with it?
The Michi has a AKM-32Bit/768kHz DAC that is MQA certified but the display does not show what it is doing with the signal (only shows the input signal).
Maybe Rotel can help shed some light...
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Also, just to confirm, the Blue sound device cannot output a digital signal more than 96 KHz? So therefore the Blue sound DAC is only unfolding the signal once?
Therefore the Michi will never see a input signal over 96KHz? Is it possible for the Michi DAC to unfold a 96KHz signal to 196KHz? i.e. both DACs being used in series?
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Since the Michi can take an encoded data stream and make sound with it, this proves that the Michi is doing MQA unfolding. Yes, it would be interesting to know what the fully unfolded stream is and it's up to Rotel to tell.
The MIchi seems very nice. On paper, the money is on letting the Michi handle the whole MQA. But only your ears can tell. Please enjoy and share your impressions on different ways of playing.
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The MIchi can unfold the 44k encoded stream to 196k and beyond, but not the 96k stream which is not an MQA encoded stream but a straight PCM stream. To provide a PCM output, the Node performs the first unfolding. 96k is the best it can do under the MQA regime.
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Thanks Ken,
So technically the Michi should be the better DAC to unfold to 196k vs. the limited Blue sound DAC of 96k maximum output.
I guess only the ear can tell, I'll try some 196k tracks and see if I can hear a difference, it would be really nice if the Michi would display what it is doing with the unfolded MQA signal.
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Also, new to me I'm told the Michi X3 (the model I have) cannot unfold MQA files??
If this is true why can I hear good audio output from the Michi X3 when I turn off the Blue sound DAC??
Is there a better streaming service other than Tidal for tracks over 96 khz that the X3 can process?
More confused...
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Kurt, you have already proven that your X3 can handle MQA by using it as an "MQA external DAC".
You cannot turn off the Bluesound DAC which matters only if you use the analog outputs.
When using the digital outputs, you choice is between passing through the encoded MQA data stream or sending a PCM stream, at up to 96khz, decoded by the Node in the first unfolding step.
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OK. I stand corrected. It seems that an MQA encoded stream can be played without MQA decoding, but at an equivalent of 13-bit resolution instead of 16-bit per CD spec. The missing bits were used to store MQA decoding instructions.
Kurt, at this point, it may be easiest to post the question to Rotel.
You can also compare the Node decoded digital output of 24/96 versus still-encoded (with "External MQA DAC" option and assuming the X3 can't do MQA) digital output of 13/44. There should be some audible differences between 24/96 and 13/44, shouldn't it?
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OK, I tried to listen with both options "MQA External DAC" & the Blue sound sound DAC doing the work, it is very hard to tell the difference but I lean toward the Blue sound DAC "ON". This was also advised by the place I bought the gear from.
I also posed the question to Rotel and am waiting for them to comment officially but the tech support person I talked to said the X3 DAC is MQA certified...he might be wrong?
It would be really nice if the Michi had a display that showed "MQA 196KHZ Out".
Seems nobody really knows the answer but for 99% of tracks Tidal MQA @ 96KHZ is just fine, nice to push the limits of 196KHZ tracks but can't seem to find the answer.
Maybe next year Blue sound has a new player that can output 196KHZ digital to an amp?
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It's the decision by MQA to limit the digital output to 24/96. Bluesound gears most likely unfold to 24/192, if applicable, for their internal DAC.
It may be very hard to tell 24/96 and 24/192 apart. But the difference between 13/44 and 24/96 should be quite audible, especially in the details of string instruments. When in doubt, might as well go with 24/96.
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Rotel just confirmed the X3 does not support MQA so I need to use the Blue sound DAC. Maybe I should consider using Qobuz in the future if I want higher res files over 96khz. I assume the X3 DAC can process FLAC files?
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Thanks for the update. Glad that you have now the definitive answer.
To be precise, it's not the DAC chip per se, but the additional mechanism to decode the embedded MQA instruction for the DAC chip. The X3 does not have that but the X5 does.
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Ahh, thanks for clarifying!
So no problem with FLAC files then for the X3?
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Not sure why flac matters unless you want to play flac files on a USB stick inserted into the X3.
Typically, the Node plays the flac files on your computer, NAS, or USB drive and sends the digital stream to the X3, or a media player on your computer performs the same and sends the digital stream to the X3 via USB connection. Either way, you don't have to worry about flac or any other formats supported by the Node or your computer's media player.
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Out of curiosity, I looked at the Michi manual. I don't think the Michi X3 has the capability to play any encoded format directly. So, the answer is "No" on FLAC for X3.
However, as mentioned, this is not relevant because the Michi does not handle FLAC files directly. The Node or a media player decodes the FLAC files and sends the resulting PCM stream to the Michi to make sound. All the Michi needs to know is how to play PCM stream, and it does.
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Got it, so forgive my ignorance I'm a newby...
So the X3 DAC takes whatever digital PCM stream it is given and converts the signal from digital to analog for playback, correct?
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Yes, you are correct.
You can download the sample FLAC files from http://www.2l.no/hires/ and play them on the Node and see the sampling frequencies reported by the Michi. This would test both what the Node can output digitally and what the Michi can receive.
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Cool, I tried some 192 khz and 352 khz files from Hoff and Vivaldi. I don't think the Node can output higher than 196 khz digitally as there was no sound when I played the 352 khz files.
The 192 khz played just fine and sounded awesome, The Michi reported "192khz" on the front panel when I played Vivaldi, sounds great through the Michi and pair of B&W 805s:)
I think the maximum resolution the Michi can play through the digital inputs is 396khz.
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Thanks for the info. According to the manual, the X3 is also capped out at 192khz on the Coax/Optical inputs. You can try using the USB input to go to 384khz, under USB 2.0.
You have some really fancy gears. Enjoy!
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hi guys
i think i am more or less facing the same question (with cheaper toys :-) ) my amp is a RA 1592, not the last on MKII, the previous one
i have connected the amp to node 2i through coaxial
under the bluesound app, for qobuz, should i select HD+, 192 khz, when i stream an eligible sound, it does not work. Should i select 96 khz (HD), it works. I tried to select or deselect the mqa external dac option under blue app, it does not change (i only tried with the coaxial, never with the analog cable...)
which is surprising is that, rotel is showing on its screen 192 khz, but is not able to read, no sound at all, it does not downgrade by himself the flow. HD 92 khz is working so not big deal, but i confess i do not get the logic behind this issue
thks
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Your problem is different. We already know MQA output is limited to 24/96 for non-MQA DACs, regardless of what the Node or the DAC can do.
Have you tried streaming straight 24/192 FLAC files? If you can play them at 24/192, that would mean the digital connection between the Node and your DAC is fine. The problem is isolated to the Qobuz app or subscription plan.
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Also, have you tried changing the "Audio Clock Trim" setting?
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Thank you for your feedback
i have no way to stream hi res music out of online platform
but i did try to connect the node 2i with optic cable instead of my audioquest coaxial... and it works...
my coax cable is the forest from audioquest; never thought it could be an issue, i will try a "better" coax to compare...
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I mean download hi res files from sites such as http://www.2l.no/hires/. And play them from your hard drive.
But if the optical connection works, then it may be just the coax cable, as you said.
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