Native !!! DSD support
Beantwortet
Hi Bluesound team,
Your product (Node2i) is almost great and I would like to build multiroom system on it's base, but one big feature, I would like it to have is missing. Native !!! DSD support. Hardware you have inside Node 2i is capable of playing natively (NOT conversion to FLAC or DSD to PCM) DSD64 (2.8MHz) and DSD128 (5.6 MHz) sampling rates. When it will be implemented with new firmware update to streamer and in BluOS for phones and tablets? People asking for this feature from 2017, now is March 2021.
Will you make your customers happy with implementation of Native !!! DSD support? And when?
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Offizieller Kommentar
Hi Vlad
Rather than high processing DoP, we offer a one-time conversion of DSD to PCM via FLAC. Here's how; https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360019447014
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Hi Tony,
Thank you for your response. First, I was not asking about DoP = DSD over PCM. I was inquiring about Native !!! DSD support. From your answer I understood nothing changed in approach of Bluesound to issue of not supporting DSD natively (since 2017). Sorry that you have lost me as customer for building multi room setup. Stay with your Sonos fan base.
All the best,
Vlad
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Hi Vlad
Very few non-SONY brand DACs play native DSD. If you review their specs, almost all of them perform a real-time DSD to PCM conversion.
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More and more DAC's can play native DSD. Many are converting to DSD files for their media streaming. So native DSD capabilities will be a requirement. Now when equipment and knowledge to record directly to DSD is more available, things will change rapidly.
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It's been a while since the previous posts on this topic so I thought I'd 'bump' it and see whether there is any news on the native dsd support front. As far as I can tell not even NAD devices support it. Starting to look like a bit of a gap relative to some of the new options coming out (e.g. the new Marantz 40n for example).
Any thoughts? Is there a technical roadblock is it simply a matter of feature roadmap? Understand that being at a lower price point Bluesound devices may not support it, but what about NAD? And wouldn't it be great if both brands supported it? :)
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Hi Alex
See official comment - DSD Support is available on all BluOS Enabled products.
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I also would need DSD support in BluOS, but not have to convert them all to FLAC to be able to play them.
At home I have a PC (Windows10) sending native FLAC and DSD (DSF) files to a Wyred4Sound DAC. The W4S DAC then sends the analogue signal to a NAD T787. Works like a charm.
But I am looking into a new setup for our apartment in Spain. Support for playing DSD is a pre-req. I have no interest in converting all my DSF files into FLAC. That would be a massive waste of diskspace.
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Thanks Tony. I did see that article but, as others have said in this and other threads going back years, I think what is being asked for is native DSD support rather than converting to FLAC PCM and having to store two sets of files.
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Hi Alex
Read up on DSD over PCM (DoP) and understand 'native DSD playback' is not exactly that. We are satisfied with our one-time conversion methodology rather than constantly converting on the fly every playback. We hope you will be too once you hear it.
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I understand your position, but I think most people with .DSF files DO NOT want to convert them to FLAC for playback. It might be worth Bluesound listening to their customers.
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I agree with Steve. This what stops me from going with BluOS. I have about 1500 SACD ripped to DSF. That's approximatly 4TB of data and growing. It's not an option to convert them to FLAC.
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We should probably also clarify the DSD over PCM (DoP) point. DoP is just a way of encoding DSD in a PCM structure. This is done as a way of transferring DSD via devices that can't handle DSD (but can handle PCM). When a DoP file hits a DSD capable DAC it is reconstructed into the original stream. It is not a DSD file converted to PCM, it is actually the original DSD file.
Of course this only works if the DAC supports DoP and DSD. Powernode 2i, which I own and which I believe uses Texas Instruments PCM5242 DAC does not (I am not sure about the Node 2i and the latest Node but possibly the same?). This being the case, a one-time conversion to PCM makes sense from the point of view of processing requirements. It does result in extra storage requirements which, obviously, will vary depending on the size of one's library. Given that the DAC does not support DSD at least there is a straight forward way of converting the files and playing them.
Coming back to the request for 'native' support, I think the request is for a DSD capable DAC. One time conversion is a workaround (and no question the sound will most of the time be close to, if not indistinguishable to the original) but it's still a workaround.
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Native DSD support has been true for years In 100€ Rpi dac's with Volumio. Why is this so difficult for Bluesound?
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I have to agree. I was shocked to hear the latest Node 2021 (N130) still does not support DSD. That's pretty ridiculous in 2022... the poster is 100% correct. Who wants to convert the DSD signal to inferior PCM FLAC? That completely defeats the purpose of the brilliant audio format of DSD. And wow it appears you literally have to convert them to flag it won't do it automatically. There's no freaking way I'm converting all my massive DSD library that I have meticulously pulled off my CDs to FLAC. Looks like it's time to look for another device....
The DAC can do it so it should be offered as a supported format.
This is almost as bad as Astell & Kern refusing to support the ISO format in their digital players...which also is not underground anymore as many labels offer it as a direct download
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This is nuts.
I am leaving Bluesound.
This no native DSD support has been a pain point for Bluenode users forever, and it seems Bluesound has no intention to support it, and keeps asking users to adapt their own way by converting files to FLAC which makes zero sense to do so.
Your competitors are coming products with native DSD support.
I have three very close audiophile friends that we share feedback and discuss audio equipment. We all bought Bluenode last year 2002, and we have been leaving Bluenode for the same reason.
When there are more and more used Bluenode showing up on eBay, audiogon, US audiomart, don’t be surprised!1 -
And why support MQA. A lossy and dying format? Someone is taking bad decisions.
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And NAD products don't support native DSD either. Even though they are typically in a higher price bracket than Bluesound. Not even the Masters series. So it's a Lenbrook portfolio wide thing. It's not a complete deal breaker for me but it's disappointing that there is this gap. I am keen to grow my DSD library (for select titles at least) and this lack of support is annoying.
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@Henning, can’t agree more. I think Roon is probably the only big player promoting MQA for Tidal, which I cancelled months ago since it’s the most expensive streaming service and the quality is inferior than Amazon Music or Apple Music for more money.
I did think Bluesound has a potential position to win over Roon especially for multiroom streaming but the no DSD support is annoying.
@Alex, I agree not all new / popular DACs supports DSD playback natively. I am using iPad Pro + Plex to play my DSD collection stored in a NAS. Just buy a super long USBC cable (my is 25ft) direct to my DAC.
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As mentioned earlier in this thread and in the official answer, ‘Native’ playback may not be as native as you think.
https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/1500000520082/comments/7886165440791
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Native DSD playback is a fundamental part of high-fi listening. DACs including the ESS9038pro and many lesser Delta Sigma types provide native DSD and DoP decoding as part of their core functionality and filtering onboard for this. The merrits of maintaining DSD single bit formats from DSD64 to DSD256 DSD512 and higher are obvious to those that have experienced it. Selections are available for purchase online in various places such as highresaudio.com
It is difficult to find a DAC in any audiophile pricerange that DOESNT support native DxD playback. This does not mean converting to PCM. This completely defeats the purpose of the format, introduces distortions, losses from change in formats, and resolutions. Fundamentally DSD recordings, especially those mixed and produced that way are going to sound markedly different from the PCM versions. This is why many of us gravitate to those versions. I have PCM 24/192 and DSD64 versions of the same recording, and they are very different experiences. For Jazz and some rock, I generally always prefer my DSD versions. Converting them to PCM loses resolution and introduces artifacts that makes them inferrior to the PCM mastered versions. This is not a acceptable solution, and the only reason I will not buy the upcoming NAD M66 (sadly). I will be watching for Native support....which is CRITICAL. Until then I will be using another DAC with a somewhat old interface that supports native DSD (DoP). Itching for people to get it.
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